Aircraft Loadout Thread - Vector Thrust

This thread has been made for everyone interested in helping the development, in this case defining the weapons for each aircraft.

For the choosing the weapons there are a few guidelines:

1. the weapons should be available at the start year of the aircraft (it can be seen in the challenge mode or in the ini file)
2. the total ammo quantity will be defined later and will be proportional the max takeoff weight and weapon weigh.
3. mass produced aircraft should only use mass produced weapons.
4. if the aircraft family is known for the use of a specific weapon, use diferent variants of that weapon to give variety
5. it is not required but the try to match prototype/concept aircraft with prototype/concept weapons developed for that family

I have the F-14 family planed out so I can share it here as example:

G-303-60 (1966)

• -AIM-9D
  
• -AIM-7D
• -AIM-26B
• -AIM-26A

G-303E (1967)

• -AIM-9D
  
• -AIM-9C
• -AIM-7E
• -AIM-7B

YF-14 (1969)

• -AIM-9G
  
• -AIM-7E
• -CBU-87
• -AIM-54A

F-14IMI (1972)

• -AIM-9J
  
• -AIM-54A
• -AIM-9H (QAAM)
• -AIM-7F

YF-14F (1974)

• -AIM-95
  
• -AGM-62 Walleye
• -AIM-7F
• -LAU-61CA[Hydra70_M229]_RCL

F-14A (1960)

• -AIM-9J
  
• -AIM-54A
• -AIM-7E
• -MK-83

F-14A+ (1987)

• -AIM-9L
  
• -AIM-54B
• -AIM-7M
• -CBU-100

F-14AM (2012)

• -R-73E
  
• -Fakour 90
• -AIM-7E
• -MK-82

F-14B (1990)

• -AIM-9M1
  
• -GBU-10
• -AIM-54C
• -GBU-12

F-14D (1991)

• -AIM-9M1
  
• -AIM-54C++
• -AIM-7P
• -GBU-24 Paveway III

F-14D quick strike (1996)

• -AIM-9M8
  
• -AIM-120C-5_XMAA
• -AGM-84E SLAM
• -AGM-88 HARM.

ST-21 (2000)

• -AIM-9M8
  
• -YAIM-152A
• -AIM-120C-7_XMAA
• -GBU-27

AST-21 (2003)

• -AIM-9M8
  
• -AGM-130
• -YAIM-152B
• -AGM-84H

How can you help?

Just selecting the weapons can be a big help.
Is even greater if you can show me were to place the weapons or send me the loadout file (or paste it here)

Also, you can choose weapons that are not in the game yet.

Edited by: timeSymmetry

I was thinking about seeing what I could do with the F-16, particularly with the later variants that currently share loadouts, but before I start messing with the list:

timeSymmetry wrote: the weapons should be available at the start year of the aircraft (it can be seen in the challenge mode or in the ini file)

How close should the weapon's year match with the aircraft? I've seen that the AIM-9N and the YF-16 appear within the same year, but photography shows the YF-16 with the older AIM-9E.

From what I understand of the F-16, it was meant to be a pure air fighter until the decision to go multirole following the production of the F-16A. If I were to modify the loadouts, the pre-production variants would not have air-to-ground ordinance, but their smaller nose would also restrict their options for air-to-air. Aside from giving these variants the AIM-7E, I'm not sure what else they could use aside from another Sparrow or Sidewinder like the G-303-E in your list shows.

What is the intended year for the X-16S? It's currently set to 1987 like the Block 30, but being a fictional upgrade I'm assuming it would appear later.

For other F-16s not yet in-game, do they have planned loadouts yet?

Edited by: SpootKnight

SpootKnight wrote:
How close should the weapon's year match with the aircraft? I've seen that the AIM-9N and the YF-16 appear within the same year, but photography shows the YF-16 with the older AIM-9E.

you can add it if it was introduced in the same year, even if it was months later

SpootKnight wrote:
From what I understand of the F-16, it was meant to be a pure air fighter until the decision to go multirole followed the production of the F-16A. If I were to modify the loadouts, the pre-production variants would not have air-to-ground ordinance, but their smaller nose would also restrict their options for air-to-air. Aside from giving these variants the AIM-7E, I'm not sure what else they could use aside from another Sparrow or Sidewinder like the G-303-E in your list shows.

Yes, I´m sure with these rules it will be hard to choose the weapons for some aircrafts, but sometimes a prototype weapon may help give some variety, although there was no prototype weapon for the F-16 as far as I'm aware

SpootKnight wrote:
What is the intended year for the X-16S? It's currently set to 1987 like the Block 30, but being a fictional upgrade I'm assuming it would appear later.

X-16S will be 2003.

SpootKnight wrote:
For other F-16s not yet in-game, do they have planned loadouts yet?

I have more F-16s planed but these are the ones that I´m sure that will be added:
F-16C Block 50
F-16C Block 60
F-16AM
F-16XL
F-16X
but none of them has any planned loadout.

Edited by: timeSymmetry

the weapons should be available at the start year of the aircraft

Could you add unlockable loadouts that were introduced later in the aircraft's lifespan? They'd be great for campaigns (allowing you to effectively "level up" your phantom instead of trading it in for a newer model) and multiplayer balancing.

Because of how long the list gets with this formatting I'm sending any WiPs to you by PM.

Erm, is this thread also talked about how many hardpoints aircraft should have? I do want to have more hardpoints for Fulcrum families and Su-33, since currently those only have 4 hardpoints. Oh and weapon variations for Fulcrums, since all Fulcrums at the moment have exactly same loadout. I do want to have some of them has air-to-air SP weapons. A standard SAAM or R-60 is good enough for Mig-29OVT (designed for air-to=air). And for multi-targets, four R-77 should be enough for Mig-35 and Mig-29A.

For Su-33, I want them to be able to carry KS-172S, since Su-33 payload should that big enough to carry 4 or 6 of them. And perhaps a rocket launcher for RCL barrage will be great.

That's all my suggestion I think.

Kh-41 for Su-33 plz (a shout out to certain flight sim I know)

Fulcrum-F wrote:
For Su-33, I want them to be able to carry KS-172S, since Su-33 payload should that big enough to carry 4 or 6 of them. And perhaps a rocket launcher for RCL barrage will be great.

I'm pretty sure that contrasdicts TimeS' guidelines in the opening post. Neither Su-33 is actually stated to have K-172 in its arsensal.

Also, TimeS it would be good to remove multi-targeting capability from semi-active missiles. It really mostly leads to wasting ammo.

Rearmament for Su-27S:
W1: R-27R
W2: B-13 Rockets
W3: FAB-500 Bomb

Edited hardpoint location to match RL Su-27S\P.

numSpecialWeaps = 3

SpecialWeapon_1 = "R-27R_XMAA"
SpecialWeapon_1_ammo = 12
SpecialWeapon_1_nHP=2
SpecialWeapon_1_HP_1_indx = 1
SpecialWeapon_1_HP_1_HasMesh = true
SpecialWeapon_1_HP_1_Mesh =  "Su-27S_HardpA.mesh"
SpecialWeapon_1_HP_1_nWeap =  1
SpecialWeapon_1_HP_1_wPos_1 =  "0 -0.34 -0.4"
SpecialWeapon_1_HP_1_wDir_1 =  "0 -0.00 -1"
SpecialWeapon_1_HP_2_indx = 2
SpecialWeapon_1_HP_2_HasMesh = true
SpecialWeapon_1_HP_2_Mesh =  "Su-27S_HardpD.mesh"
SpecialWeapon_1_HP_2_nWeap =  1
SpecialWeapon_1_HP_2_wPos_1 =  "0 -0.48 0"
SpecialWeapon_1_HP_2_wDir_1 =  "0 -0.04 -1"


SpecialWeapon_1_SelStateAnim_Folded_RCSadd_Front = 3
SpecialWeapon_1_SelStateAnim_Folded_RCSadd_Back = 3
SpecialWeapon_1_SelStateAnim_Folded_RCSadd_Side = 3
SpecialWeapon_1_SelStateAnim_Folded_RCSadd_Top = 3
SpecialWeapon_1_SelStateAnim_Folded_RCSadd_Bottom = 3

SpecialWeapon_2 = "B-13L[S-13DF]_RCL"
SpecialWeapon_2_ammo = 40
SpecialWeapon_2_nHP=2
SpecialWeapon_2_HP_1_indx = 1
SpecialWeapon_2_HP_1_HasMesh = true
SpecialWeapon_2_HP_1_Mesh =  "Su-27S_HardpA.mesh"
SpecialWeapon_2_HP_1_nWeap =  1
SpecialWeapon_2_HP_1_wPos_1 =  "0 -0.42 -0.357"
SpecialWeapon_2_HP_1_wDir_1 =  "0 -0.00 -1"
SpecialWeapon_2_HP_2_indx = 2
SpecialWeapon_2_HP_2_HasMesh = true
SpecialWeapon_2_HP_2_Mesh =  "Su-27S_HardpD.mesh"
SpecialWeapon_2_HP_2_nWeap =  1
SpecialWeapon_2_HP_2_wPos_1 =  "0 -0.56 -0.197"
SpecialWeapon_2_HP_2_wDir_1 =  "0 -0.04 -1"

SpecialWeapon_2_SelStateAnim_Folded_RCSadd_Front = 3
SpecialWeapon_2_SelStateAnim_Folded_RCSadd_Back = 3
SpecialWeapon_2_SelStateAnim_Folded_RCSadd_Side = 3
SpecialWeapon_2_SelStateAnim_Folded_RCSadd_Top = 3
SpecialWeapon_2_SelStateAnim_Folded_RCSadd_Bottom = 3


SpecialWeapon_3 = "FAB-500-M62_UGB"
SpecialWeapon_3_ammo = 16
SpecialWeapon_3_nHP=2
SpecialWeapon_3_HP_1_indx = 2
SpecialWeapon_3_HP_1_HasMesh = true
SpecialWeapon_3_HP_1_Mesh =  "Su-27S_HardpE.mesh"
SpecialWeapon_3_HP_1_nWeap =  1
SpecialWeapon_3_HP_1_wPos_1 =  "0 -0.615 -0.337"
SpecialWeapon_3_HP_1_wDir_1 =  "0 -0.08 -1"

SpecialWeapon_3_SelStateAnim_Folded_RCSadd_Front = 3
SpecialWeapon_3_SelStateAnim_Folded_RCSadd_Back = 3
SpecialWeapon_3_SelStateAnim_Folded_RCSadd_Side = 3
SpecialWeapon_3_SelStateAnim_Folded_RCSadd_Top = 3
SpecialWeapon_3_SelStateAnim_Folded_RCSadd_Bottom = 3




[HardPoints]
numHardPoints = 3

HP_1_position = "1.150 -1.800 1.778 " 
HP_1_TwinSymetrical = true
HP_1_TypeWeap = 3

HP_2_position = "4.567 -0.618 3.267 "
HP_2_TwinSymetrical = true
HP_2_TypeWeap = 3

HP_3_position = "6.088 -0.618 4.726 "
HP_3_TwinSymetrical = true
HP_3_TypeWeap = 3

Edited by: John_Silver

Ah I see, I miss that part. Then perhaps R-77 for Su-33 will be more fitting.

Can we have some air-to-air weapons for more of the MiG-29 family and F-16AB5? Current loadout doesn't reflect their multirole nature.

MyHatismyFriend wrote: Can we have some air-to-air weapons for more of the MiG-29 family and F-16AB5? Current loadout doesn't reflect their multirole nature.

I'll take a look on the MiG-29 and F-16 families as soon as I've done with Su-27. (I've asked TimeS to allow me to help with improving weapon loadouts for planes and he agreed).

Edit: Just read on F-16A, looks like it didn't get AIM-7 until block 15. So, need to think how to go about this one. I'd still like to give it Sparrows.

Edited by: John_Silver

I'm having the same issue with trying to follow authenticity with the loadouts, as it potentially leaves up to six early variants without any expandable air-to-air. Though because there was no actual S/MTD or FSW tests, we could give those Sparrows, but I see the FSW as a knife-fighter, and being forced to sit still for a SARH missile to track doesn't give its higher maneuverability any good favors.

One thing that could be done is to give the small-nose F-16s a different Sidewinder variant; rear-aspect but high-velocity or damage in comparison to the model used for their standard MSSL hardpoints. If their MSSL were to be the AIM-9P, then they could use the AIM-9N as a SP weapon. There aren't discrepancies in weapon seeker behavior since the 'P' is all-aspect while the 'N' is rear-aspect.

Actually, realizing that older variants in the F-14 family listed above would be using even older Sidewinder variants, this idea doesn't play nice with that claim.

Edited by: SpootKnight

SpootKnight wrote: I'm having the same issue with trying to follow authenticity with the loadouts, as it potentially leaves up to six early variants without any expandable air-to-air. Though because there was no actual S/MTD or FSW tests, we could give those Sparrows, but I see the FSW as a knife-fighter, and being forced to sit still for a SARH missile to track doesn't give its higher maneuverability any good favors.

On the other side I'm sort of don't feel giving FSW rocket pods either.

Maybe napalms would fit?

Edited by: Nergal01

John_Silver wrote: Edit: Just read on F-16A, looks like it didn't get AIM-7 until block 15. So, need to think how to go about this one. I'd still like to give it Sparrows.

I sent Times a new PM with loadouts for the rest of the F-16 family with the exception of pre-production and SCAMP variants. I put the AIM-7E on the S/MTD, since it wasn't a model that, to my knowledge, appeared in prototype stages. That would give it an early(ish) advanced air-to-air capability.

SpootKnight wrote:
I sent Times a new PM with loadouts for the rest of the F-16 family with the exception of pre-production and SCAMP variants. I put the AIM-7E on the S/MTD, since it wasn't a model that, to my knowledge, appeared in prototype stages. That would give it an early(ish) advanced air-to-air capability.

Great. I'm really glad that others work at improwing armaments too. Be sure to post which ones you're working on, so we don't step on each other's toes. (My plans are Su-27->MiG-29->Su-25 families).

I think, I'll start using PMs to send TimeS loadouts that I've finished too.

(On a side note we really need more weapons: like Kh-35, Kh-38, Kh-25, R-23, R-27ER, JDAM, FAB-250 etc)

Edited by: John_Silver

Maybe I can help with loadouts for Chinese planes once they're in-game.

Just maybe.

It seems like most of the F-15 family suffers from a relatively small inventory to choose from. Primarily the reason I started looking at the loadouts here was because the 'E,' 'U,' and 'U' Plus all share two of the same SP and two share one. The strike variants have enough going on to keep the variety strong, but as far as I've seen, the fighters have little more available than the Sparrow, AMRAAM, and a UGB.

Edited by: SpootKnight

Here's how I'd handle it- possibly changing the ammo levels/salvo numbers for each variant. For example,

F-15C/D/E gets 4 AMRAAMs, 16 ammo total
F-15XX/JK+ gets 6 AMRAAMS per salvo (2 on Sparrow, 4 in fuselage), 30 ammo total

Same idea with F-15J/JK/DJ

That would be good given what was said before about dynamic weaponry.

Please put the UGB for the F-313 on the top-mounted pylon so you'll blow yourself up when you try to use it unless when you're flying upside down.

I can confirm that I received both John_Silver and SpootKnight loadouts.

MyHatismyFriend wrote: Here's how I'd handle it- possibly changing the ammo levels/salvo numbers for each variant. For example,

F-15C/D/E gets 4 AMRAAMs, 16 ammo total
F-15XX/JK+ gets 6 AMRAAMS per salvo (2 on Sparrow, 4 in fuselage), 30 ammo total

Same idea with F-15J/JK/DJ

Yes, they can have different placements between iterations, but something I really want to avoid is just adding more total ammo.

As I said the total ammo will be attributed considering the take-off weight.
This is to avoid the usual power creep in this type of games, and also normally, more modern iterations often weight more but still use the same engines, because of this, it is likely they are able will carry less ammo.

In other words, what I want to avoid is the effect of a new iterations is absolutely better that the one before, instead I want to create a perfect imbalance were it leads to a meta game where in each variant you win something and you loose something.
This will also change the player’s behavior instead of rushing towards the latest variants for the optimal strategy, the player will be able to choose any of them because all will still be relevant with each have his own strengths and weakness.

This video can give a better view of what I want:

Also concepts of the F-15 can use the AIM-82, AIM-95 Agile and AIM-97 Seekbat
And If found a concept missile for the F-16: AGM-153
I can imagine the most difficult families will be the Jaguar and mirage F1

MyHatismyFriend wrote: Please put the UGB for the F-313 on the top-mounted pylon so you'll blow yourself up when you try to use it unless when you're flying upside down.

The F-313 won’t be a joke plane, like everything else I’ll take it at face value as a real stealth interceptor.
Brochure/Public data over personal and external opinions like I did with other controversial aircraft like the F-35

I will be away so it is possible I won’t be able to provide more help for today.

Edited by: timeSymmetry

I did take a look at those weapons while making the lists, but I wasn't able to find any variant that best suits their use. Since I couldn't find any images on the AIM-82 and AGM-153, I avoided the possibility of using them since they would likely have to be made with a fictional design. I did consider the AIM-97, but I feel it would only hinder the combat capability of the F-15XX, being the only (current) concept variant with a focus on air combat.

For the F-15XX I recommend the ASM-135 ASAT I’ll make it work against air objects but it will only be good against units with low agility.

I have all the needed information for the AIM-82 it will be a QAAM and it can be added up to 8 in a F-15, I think it can be a good weapon for something like the F-15U

(I still need to add the YF-15)

I assume this is a mockup for the AGM-153 with the shape I can guess some of the specs to some degree.

Also this might be interesting,

the Have Dash, but probably save it for the F-15SE

Those could work. I don't know what you plan to do with the Silent Eagle, but if you were to use the Have Dash I assume it might also have the AIM-120 and bombs like JDAM or SMD.

Though I'm curious about the last post, can a game like this really have the type of balance you're looking for? What would be applied to the gain/lose aspect of newer variants?

Is it possible to add double rocked pod and 6-FAB-100 pylon some Su-27 variants were shown with without adding completely new weapon to the game? Like these, I mean (warning: la-arge picture).

Offtopic:
Speaking of plane variants, I remember that TimeS promised T-50 and Su-15, but what about Su-24, Su-34 and Su-27SM3?

Edited by: John_Silver