• Register
Post feature RSS Roman & Greek Partisanship

How I plan the presence of Roman and Hellenic political factions to influence gameplay within said cultures.

Posted by on

I know it's been some time since I published something on ModDB, so I believe it's high time that I make a clear sign that I'm still here.

In a sudden, but not unwelcome stream of crafty ideas, I began to consider the question of partisanship in ancient world and how will it affect internal politics of Roman and Greek realms (cultures where significant, established political factions influenced political life most visibly). Thus I present to you a short discussion of this particular aspect of the mod.


Rome

It should not be a surprise that I chose this name to appear the first, since it was the partisanship in the Late Republic that ultimately gave rise to people like Marius, Sulla, Caesar and Augustus. The enmity between Optimates and the Populares is one of the most widely-known themes of Roman history. It is therefore quite reasonable for this rivalry to affect the gameplay as a Roman character.
It should be noted that belonging to one of those factions will not be obligatory. Their influence on the election system will be quite probably very significantly however, so an ambitious Roman could be at some point forced to choose as a side.
How will this work in detail? Well, that still greatly depends on how well I'll be able to implement the elective system in the game (something which may be quite complicated and hard, but as I've been considering it for some time, may actually be successful). What is certain is that personal opinion will be at least one of the most crucial factors determining a chance of a given person to win the elections, and personal opinion will be influenced heavily by partisan status. Optimate electorate will be quite unlikely to vote on a Populares' candidate and vice versa. Fellow faction members' help could also potential sway the outcome of elections in the candidate's favour and so on. Alternatively, someone outside of the factional struggle could win the support of members of both factions, but would be forced to be on his own when it comes to gathering support.
Factional trait effects:

  • Optimas - +0.25 prestige per month, +0.25 piety per month, -50 opinion with Populares, +10 opinion with Patricians
  • Popularis - +10 vassal opinion, -50 opinion with Optimates, +10 opinion with Plebeians

Greece

The Hellenic partisanship is perhaps a little less known than that in Rome, but in its time was just as crucial to the internal politics of poleis.
Given types of governments and styles of leadership practiced all along the Ancient Greek history, I think it would be quite proper to make different factional alliegances shape a Hellenic character's political career in a different way. Some political option or strategy abhorred by one faction could be most enthusiastically implemented by another.
Now, I don't know the full details of this differences, but I'll be surely commenting on them in future. It should be noted however that those kinds of aesthetic additions will not probably make it into the first version (as I've learned by know that you want this mod to be released sooner than later) and will instead be implemented in the updates to follow.
Factional trait effects:

  • Autocratist - +1 Martial, +1 Intrigue, -2 Diplomacy, +20 lower class opinion, -20 upper class opinion, -30 opinion with Democrats and Oligarchists
  • Democrat - +2 Diplomacy, -2 Intrigue, -30 opinion with Autocratists and Oligarchists
  • Oligarchist - -2 Martial, +2 Stewardship, +20 upper class opinion, -20 lower class opinion, -30 opinion with Autocratists and Democrats

If you have any questions or suggestions for me, I'm open to answering them.

Unrelatedly, I'd like to apologize for kind of neglecting ModDB community. Ever since Charlemagne patch I've been experiencing serious technical issues which made working on the mod significantly harder and so I can't give you teasers as often as I did earlier. Still, be patient and with a little luck, I'll finish the damn map. With such significant project complete, we'll be one enormous step closer to releasing the mod and I promise, I will not hesitate to show you the new map as soon as it's finished.

Comments
Guest
Guest

Have you ever thought about collaborating with the guy from Pharaohs & Consuls Mod?

Reply Good karma Bad karma+1 vote
Arivius Author
Arivius

I have, actually. But I strongly believe we have thoroughly different concepts and I very much value my independence of creation.

Reply Good karma+3 votes
m0thbanquet
m0thbanquet

Wish I had suggestions for you, but you seem to be well on top of things in that regard. Keep plugging away, the end result will be more than worth it!

Reply Good karma Bad karma+1 vote
Timjames
Timjames

Are you going to add slavery?

It was an important part of life in the ancient world, and entire economies were dependent upon the the slave trade to function. I think it is such an important part of life in the Ancient World that it needs to be presented in some form, even if only by traits or events.

Reply Good karma Bad karma+1 vote
Arivius Author
Arivius

Of course. I'll have it no other way. I'm planning on contacting the devs of AGOT and ask them to use some of their slavery content, maybe expand a little bit upon it.
I am fully aware of the widespread nature and importance of slavery in the ancient world, don't worry.

Reply Good karma+1 vote
Timjames
Timjames

Awesome!

One idea I have is that after capturing a city, an event fires giving the commander a choice of what to do with the city's inhabitant. It might be something like this.

"The city of Carthage has fallen, and now you have the right to choose what to do with the people."

Option 1: "Enslave them!" (city suffers depopulation, slave camps appear in your realm, you gain trait "greedy", chance of gaining trait cruel)
Option 2: "Kill them all! Leave none alive!" (city suffers major depopulation, gain trait "cruel", gain trait "wroth", chance of gaining bad nickname such as "the Devil" or "the Cruel" or "the Black" or "the Butcher of [city name]").
Option 3: "Leave the people be, they have done nothing wrong." (gain trait "kind", gain trait "just", chance of gaining good nickname such as "the merciful" or "the just").

There could also be an event where your soldiers loot a city without your say-so, and where you have to deal with them.

"The city of Carthage has fallen, and your soldiers have taken it upon themselves to sack the city for all it's worth. Many men, women, and children now lie dead."

Option 1: "Such is the right of conquest!" (gain trait "proud", chance of gaining trait "cruel")
Option 2: "I dare not deprive my men of their spoils ..." (gain trait "craven")
Option 3: "This is intolerable. Execute some of the looters as an example" (gain trait "just").

Reply Good karma Bad karma+1 vote
Arivius Author
Arivius

I really like what you wrote here. Would you be interested in aiding me with localizing events in the future? You seem to be quite resourceful in that respect and I could really use that.
Meritorically speaking, I plan to add the option to destroy holdings. It may be tricky to balance, but that's what history calls for. I very much like your other ideas and would like to discuss them in more detail some time.
One small thing that comes to my mind though that given that looting was a very, very general partice in the ancient world, almost indivisible from war. Loots were a major part of every military campaign and they were also a huge motivation boost for soldiers. That being said, I don't think players should be necessarily punished ("craven" trait) for allowing this to happen. Or at least, not in such a decisive manner. After all, I'm of the opinion the danger of mutiny when faced with forbidding looting would be quite real and what we deem today as a matter of discipline and justice, could in fact lead quickly to one's downfall.

Reply Good karma+2 votes
Timjames
Timjames

What type of aid did you have in mind? I must admit that I do not know the first thing about coding, though I would be more than happy to provide ideas.

Adding the option to destroy holdings is a good call, as that happened in history.

On looting, I still think giving commanders a choice as to whether or not to tolerate it would be better than just not giving a choice. There were some generals that kept strong dicipline, if not out of personal honor than out of a desire to prevent their future ecnomic assets going up in flames. For example, William the Conqueror wouldn't even let his soldiers ride through wheat fields (let alone sack or loot) because he knew the kingdom he was invading would be his soon.

I do agree that gaining the craven trait shouldn't be automatic. Maybe a chance of gaining craven, a chance of gaining cynical, and a chance of nothing happening. And perhaps executing looters could have a followup event where your soldiers resent you for awhile (like you gain a modifier which lowers your soldiers morale for a few years, and there's a chance of your soldiers trying to assassinate you [suceeding or failing depending on your own traits]).

"You have made an example of your soldiers, punishing them for the sack. While the people of [city name] appreciate this, your own soldiers will resent you for this." (gain modifier "denied plunder" [reduces morale of any army this character leads], 25% chance character receives event)

follow-up Event:

"You are asleep in the officer's tent, when you find a group of your own soldiers in your tent! 'We're not following you any longer!' one of them shouts, as they all draw their swords."

Option 1: Reason with these men. (assured or high chance survival, only available with high diplomacy)

Option 2: "How much will it cost to make you put your swords down?" (assured or high chance survival, only available with high stewardship)

Option 3: "I won't go without a fight!" (50% chance survival, 50% killed by own men, only available with trait "brave")

Option 4: "You've just made a big mistake ..." (80% gains trait "wounded", only available with high martial)

Option 5: Call in hidden bodyguards (assured survival, only available with "paranoid" trait)

Option 6: Beg for life (very low survival chance, gain trait "craven")

Option 7: "Please let me pray before the end. (character dies, gains piety)

Reply Good karma Bad karma+1 vote
Arivius Author
Arivius

To localize you don't have to know almost anything about coding. The system is very rudimentary.
Keeping the discipline - sure. But you must admit, the example of William the Conqueror isn't particularily... relevant to the time period. I didn't mean there shouldn't be any choice whatsoever, just that trying to keep such discipline might cause tangible consequences.

What I meant was that you seem to be resourceful in your ideas and descriptions and I could use someone like that when it comes to writing down event localization and whatnot.

Anyway, as much as I like your ideas, comments section is not a place to discuss things with such detail, so if you want to be of more help to the mod, PM me.

Reply Good karma+1 vote
Timjames
Timjames

I hope your mod includes Boudica's Rebellion (I'd love to play as Gaius Suetonius Paulinus, as he is one of my favorite generals) and The Dominion of Soissons (A Western Roman Sucessor State would be a legendary start for a new European Empire).

Reply Good karma Bad karma+1 vote
Arivius Author
Arivius

Boudica's Rebellion - of course. I know it may be a titanical effort, but I plan to eventually include all the major conflicts throughout the period covered by the mod.
The Dominion of Soissons part - yes, except that the name you used is anachronistic and will not be used in the mod. My prediction is that the base title for Syargius' domain will be Dioecesis Galliae.

Reply Good karma+1 vote
Post a comment
Sign in or join with:

Only registered members can share their thoughts. So come on! Join the community today (totally free - or sign in with your social account on the right) and join in the conversation.

Feature
Tags
Feature
Browse
Features
Share
Related Games
Crusader Kings II
Crusader Kings II Grand Strategy
Related Groups
Twierdza
Twierdza Developer & Publisher