[Royalty][UDK] Dynamic Realities need an Environment Modeller Thread

Hello Community!My name is Mads. I am 22 years old and I run a small indie group who want to make it big in the gaming industry some day. The team currently consist of:

• 2D Artist
• 3D Artist/Rigger/Animator
• Musician/Composer
• Sound Engineer
• Programmer (Though he is kind of absent as he is relocating)

And then there is me, the CEO. I try to help where I can. I delegate the assignments out and try to be the one who makes the final decision.I am open for feedback and input and encourage people to give suggestions and the likes to the project.
We are all doing this in our spare-time and hope that some day the game will bring some income for the hard work The project is an FPH (First Person Horror) game in style with Penumbra and Amnesia. The story goes as follows:

The year is 1948 and the first world war had just ended. Many nations of this world were fighting over coal reserves and had to find more quickly, as it seemed that the current deposits were depleting fast. Some nations worked together in secret to find coal reserves without permission, and in 1952 this succeeded in the Himalayas. An Excavation started here and both coal and surprisingly diamonds were found here. But also strange looking crystals. These were sent back to the nations HQ for analysis.The excavation had been going well for quite a few years until 1964, where reports of miners disappearing started ringing in. The head-overseers of the place decided to cover it up and blame it on cave-ins deep in the caves. But more and more people started disappearing higher and higher up in the caves and it came to a point where it couldn't be blamed on cave-ins any more. The force of 350 men and women fell to 23 over the course of 6 years and they barred up the place and hoped no one would ever come back to it. The place was never spoken of since, and the rest of the world was none the wiser.You, Thomas Kent, unaware of these past events, are mountain climbing in those same mountains years later. You stumble through a thin layer of the mountain and an underground river takes you deep into the caves. With no idea of how to get out or what lies ahead, you are now trapped in a deep underground mine.But remember…the miners disappeared for a reason.

So that's the setting. I hope this peeked your curiosity.We do have a Game Design Document (GDD), which got quite some detail but is of course always evolving as time goes by. We manage our content with a hosted repository at Assembla.comWe communicate via emails and Skype.
What we Seek:What we seek is a 3D modeller (or otherwise Level Designer) who specializes in making environments for the UDK, preferably in Maya (but not an absolute requirement). We are going to need cave systems and everything they entail that look somewhat natural while also having parts that looks organized because of human interaction. If you can model props and rig that is a plus but not a requirement.For all applicants we want this information:

• Name
• Age (at least 18 for legal reasons)
• Nationality
• Current Occupation (Being a student is also an occupation)
• About yourself and Portfolio (if any)

Please make the subject:RE: Level Designer
Send it to: dynamicrealities@gmail.com
Good Luck!

Edited by: Vipar

A wild ideas guy appears!

plinkie wrote: A wild ideas guy appears!

I'd appreciate you take your trolling elsewhere.

Why? I feel so at home here.

plinkie wrote: Why? I feel so at home here.

Because your trolling is not appreciated. If you read the thread you'd see I am not just an idea guy and I do have people on the team already who produced work. So please, kindly back off.

Don't take it on plinkie, he's a regular here and a sensible guy. He also has way more below his belt than you from what I can tell.

You do appear as an idea guy. You should better explain what it is that you are doing for the project yourself.

Plus the idea is not selling. Block of text doesn't really paint a good picture for me. You should probably publish some of that GDD if you want to recruit any descent people.

Edited by: shadowflar3

Vipar wrote:

plinkie wrote: Why? I feel so at home here.

Because your trolling is not appreciated. If you read the thread you'd see I am not just an idea guy and I do have people on the team already who produced work. So please, kindly back off.

An ideas guy is someone who comes up with an idea and has people on the team producing work for him : ) If you are not just an idea guy who has produced a convoluted back story then please highlight what else you have contributed to the project in terms of game development? I only ask because why would I (or anyone) want to be 'managed' and have tasks delegated to by someone like you? It would feel like I was being used. Also thanks for pointing out that being a student is an occupation, without this I wouldn't have known.

Also I see on other forums where you've posted that people keep leaving your team. Why is this?

Also on your own personal forums, there are only updates about an icon being created (clearly displayed at the top of this post). Is this all you have achieved so far ? You mention you have a GDD, which I assume you threw together, but what other progress has been made on the project?

Edited by: plinkie

plinkie wrote:

Vipar wrote:

plinkie wrote: Why? I feel so at home here.

Because your trolling is not appreciated. If you read the thread you'd see I am not just an idea guy and I do have people on the team already who produced work. So please, kindly back off.

An ideas guy is someone who comes up with an idea and has people on the team producing work for him : ) If you are not just an idea guy who has produced a convoluted back story then please highlight what else you have contributed to the project in terms of game development? I only ask because why would I (or anyone) want to be 'managed' and have tasks delegated to by someone like you? It would feel like I was being used. Also thanks for pointing out that being a student is an occupation, without this I wouldn't have known.

Also I see on other forums where you've posted that people keep leaving your team. Why is this?

Also on your own personal forums, there are only updates about an icon being created (clearly displayed at the top of this post). Is this all you have achieved so far ? You mention you have a GDD, which I assume you threw together, but what other progress has been made on the project?

Next time, don't start out with trolling. Doesn't help anyone.
The main reason people have left was because of real life intervention or because they disappeared into the ground and never reported back. Those who seemed to just disappear the most are Level Designers for whatever reason.

I like to keep my cards close to me because this is a horror game. Giving out too much information for the public eye is bad for a horror game.
But so far we have quite a lot of prop concept art as well as protagonist mock-up and Antagonist model with optimized, textured and pretty much ready for being animated and brought to life in the UDK.

On my profile it clearly says:
I thought that was obvious. But given I am a Computer Science student I program, mainly. People do however underestimate game designers and management in a project and small team like this. I am not just the average idea guy. I do get ideas, sure. But I can also contribute myself to the project in a meaningful way.

When we have updates we feel are worth sharing, we will share it.
The reason it's been fairly absent lately is because of summer holidays. For your information I've already gotten a few applicants who sent in great resumes. While I understand you have experience and a few things under your belt compared to me, you come off as a simple troll when you start off like that. Why should I care about what you say when you do that? Just think about it for next time.

Vipar wrote:

plinkie wrote:

Vipar wrote:

plinkie wrote: Why? I feel so at home here.

Because your trolling is not appreciated. If you read the thread you'd see I am not just an idea guy and I do have people on the team already who produced work. So please, kindly back off.

An ideas guy is someone who comes up with an idea and has people on the team producing work for him : ) If you are not just an idea guy who has produced a convoluted back story then please highlight what else you have contributed to the project in terms of game development? I only ask because why would I (or anyone) want to be 'managed' and have tasks delegated to by someone like you? It would feel like I was being used. Also thanks for pointing out that being a student is an occupation, without this I wouldn't have known.

Also I see on other forums where you've posted that people keep leaving your team. Why is this?

Also on your own personal forums, there are only updates about an icon being created (clearly displayed at the top of this post). Is this all you have achieved so far ? You mention you have a GDD, which I assume you threw together, but what other progress has been made on the project?

Next time, don't start out with trolling. Doesn't help anyone.
The main reason people have left was because of real life intervention or because they disappeared into the ground and never reported back. Those who seemed to just disappear the most are Level Designers for whatever reason.

I like to keep my cards close to me because this is a horror game. Giving out too much information for the public eye is bad for a horror game.
But so far we have quite a lot of prop concept art as well as protagonist mock-up and Antagonist model with optimized, textured and pretty much ready for being animated and brought to life in the UDK.

On my profile it clearly says:
I thought that was obvious. But given I am a Computer Science student I program, mainly. People do however underestimate game designers and management in a project and small team like this. I am not just the average idea guy. I do get ideas, sure. But I can also contribute myself to the project in a meaningful way.

When we have updates we feel are worth sharing, we will share it.
The reason it's been fairly absent lately is because of summer holidays. For your information I've already gotten a few applicants who sent in great resumes. While I understand you have experience and a few things under your belt compared to me, you come off as a simple troll when you start off like that. Why should I care about what you say when you do that? Just think about it for next time.

Forgive me for not relying on a small orange thing under your name to really grasp what you do on this project. Normally I would expect you to explain in the post what you do. My skepticism towards your project is drawn from the fact that you are managing the team (or CEO lol..), the team appears to have been running since June 2012 and yet the only update on the forums is about an icon for the 'company'.

Now that we have your lack of contribution to the project out of the way I'll return to the original reason for your post. What are you actually recruiting for? A 3D artist and a level designer are two completely different roles. You are asking for someone who is an expert at making environments in UDK, using Maya. I'm not sure what you are asking for but when I am designing levels I am not using Maya, I am using UDK. I use Maya for 3D modelling. So you are looking for a 3D artist portfolio but the application is RE: level designer ? Confusing.

plinkie wrote: Forgive me for not relying on a small orange thing under your name to really grasp what you do on this project. Normally I would expect you to explain in the post what you do. My skepticism towards your project is drawn from the fact that you are managing the team (or CEO lol..), the team appears to have been running since June 2012 and yet the only update on the forums is about an icon for the 'company'.

There are some other updates on the blog we had before the forum. We had to change directions because the project was too complicated for people like us at the time. Your post also got a small sense of demeanour even though you would think that a guy with more experience would be more mature about this :/
I can accept constructive criticism, reasonable feedback and healthy debates. This is none of those.

I am trying to make it somewhere. I am new. I make mistakes. I learn.

plinkie wrote:
Now that we have your lack of contribution to the project out of the way I'll return to the original reason for your post. What are you actually recruiting for? A 3D artist and a level designer are two completely different roles. You are asking for someone who is an expert at making environments in UDK, using Maya. I'm not sure what you are asking for but when I am designing levels I am not using Maya, I am using UDK. I use Maya for 3D modelling. So you are looking for a 3D artist portfolio but the application is RE: level designer ? Confusing.

Some people model their levels inside of Maya and export it to the UDK. Especially when it comes to environments which cannot be made directly in the UDK by any easy means. I asked on the UDK forums and people told me that making cave systems usually is done in something like Maya or 3DSMAX and exported to the UDK.

Edited by: Vipar

Vipar wrote:

plinkie wrote: Forgive me for not relying on a small orange thing under your name to really grasp what you do on this project. Normally I would expect you to explain in the post what you do. My skepticism towards your project is drawn from the fact that you are managing the team (or CEO lol..), the team appears to have been running since June 2012 and yet the only update on the forums is about an icon for the 'company'.

There are some other updates on the blog we had before the forum. We had to change directions because the project was too complicated for people like us at the time. Your post also got a small sense of demeanour even though you would think that a guy with more experience would be more mature about this :/
I can accept constructive criticism, reasonable feedback and healthy debates. This is none of those.

I am trying to make it somewhere. I am new. I make mistakes. I learn.

plinkie wrote:
Now that we have your lack of contribution to the project out of the way I'll return to the original reason for your post. What are you actually recruiting for? A 3D artist and a level designer are two completely different roles. You are asking for someone who is an expert at making environments in UDK, using Maya. I'm not sure what you are asking for but when I am designing levels I am not using Maya, I am using UDK. I use Maya for 3D modelling. So you are looking for a 3D artist portfolio but the application is RE: level designer ? Confusing.

Some people model their levels inside of Maya and export it to the UDK. Especially when it comes to environments which cannot be made directly in the UDK by any easy means. I asked on the UDK forums and people told me that making cave systems usually is done in something like Maya or 3DSMAX and exported to the UDK.

So you are looking for a 3D environment modeller, not a level designer. I would provide constructive criticism if this was about a game idea but this is about recruiting people to join your team so certain questions need to be answered.

Vipar,

"I am trying to make it somewhere. I am new. I make mistakes. I learn."

I'm gonna try and be as constructive as I can...

I understand that you're new, and we all have to start somewhere. But as a lead, you would be expected to really know your way around UDK, Modeling, Level Design, Texturing, and so forth. A leader can't just be expected to know the basics, because there will always be siturations where he must take decisions, based on his technical knowledge.

I'm not gonna sound as a dick, but my advice would be to start joining other teams, and get some projects under your belt, and learn a bit about each role. Just a suggestion, do not take it as an offensive!

I like the game idea, though it is a bit akwaard to change the World War 1 ending from 1918-1948, IMHO. This is just my opinion!

It is great that you have done a GDD though, that's a good start for a good project.

Edited by: Andreas77

I'm the real troll, plinkie is just trollitaiting. You can tell the difference as I don't actually do anything constructive.

Andreas77 wrote: I like the game idea, though it is a bit akwaard to change the World War 1 ending from 1918-1948, IMHO. This is just my opinion!

A lot of people already consider WW2 a fairly direct consequence of the WW1-ending Versailles Treaty. It might as well been a ceasefire agreement.

somonels wrote: I'm the real troll, plinkie is just trollitaiting. You can tell the difference as I don't actually do anything constructive.

Andreas77 wrote: I like the game idea, though it is a bit akwaard to change the World War 1 ending from 1918-1948, IMHO. This is just my opinion!

A lot of people already consider WW2 a fairly direct consequence of the WW1-ending Versailles Treaty. It might as well been a ceasefire agreement.

WUT. He won't be back, I scared him..

Edited by: plinkie

If your wanting to get started in games, join another team, starting one up by yourself will not result in the fame and fortune you seek.
Also if your going into games to find this fame and fortune your, doing it for the wrong reasons, those big names became big because they were different and at the same time had a good understanding of exactly what they wanted to achieve, if you have changed your project once, this isn'ta good sign.

If you also have not been around due to vacations, and are not paying your team, how can you expect them to hang around, they probably had a better offer.

Rather than spending time defending yourself, take time to consider what every one has said, they echo similar opinions.
Goodluck.

@TKAzA,

You really have no idea how you just 'hit the nail' there. Couldn't have put it any better myself.

Edited by: Andreas77

plinkie wrote:

somonels wrote: I'm the real troll, plinkie is just trollitaiting. You can tell the difference as I don't actually do anything constructive.

Andreas77 wrote: I like the game idea, though it is a bit akwaard to change the World War 1 ending from 1918-1948, IMHO. This is just my opinion!

A lot of people already consider WW2 a fairly direct consequence of the WW1-ending Versailles Treaty. It might as well been a ceasefire agreement.

WUT. He won't be back, I scared him..

You didn't scare me. But your initial approach was retarded. I am sorry.

Andreas77 wrote: Vipar,

"I am trying to make it somewhere. I am new. I make mistakes. I learn."

I'm gonna try and be as constructive as I can...

I understand that you're new, and we all have to start somewhere. But as a lead, you would be expected to really know your way around UDK, Modeling, Level Design, Texturing, and so forth. A leader can't just be expected to know the basics, because there will always be siturations where he must take decisions, based on his technical knowledge.

I'm not gonna sound as a dick, but my advice would be to start joining other teams, and get some projects under your belt, and learn a bit about each role. Just a suggestion, do not take it as an offensive!

I like the game idea, though it is a bit akwaard to change the World War 1 ending from 1918-1948, IMHO. This is just my opinion!

It is great that you have done a GDD though, that's a good start for a good project.

I have tried other teams and most of the time they broke down due to inactivity and the leader just disappearing. I know that I can't make a playable game on my own. Others have but I am not one of those even though I wish I was. The experience I have also come from intern at IO-Interactive on game design, primarily. I didn't list this. Probably should have.

TKAzA wrote: If your wanting to get started in games, join another team, starting one up by yourself will not result in the fame and fortune you seek.
Also if your going into games to find this fame and fortune your, doing it for the wrong reasons, those big names became big because they were different and at the same time had a good understanding of exactly what they wanted to achieve, if you have changed your project once, this isn'ta good sign.

If you also have not been around due to vacations, and are not paying your team, how can you expect them to hang around, they probably had a better offer.

Rather than spending time defending yourself, take time to consider what every one has said, they echo similar opinions.
Goodluck.

Right. It seems you might have read this thread wrong. This is not my first try either. This is one of many where I've gotten further and further. If this fails? I've gotten further than I have before, so I learn and try again at a later date.

Changing direction is a mature thing to do. If you realize you can't make your goal and you (and the team I might add) want to take it in another direction to make sure a feasible goal can be met? I don't see the error in that.

Thanks for the criticism though. While you might not consider what you do hostile, it sure comes off as hostile initially.
I will think twice before trying to recruit on this forum again.

Edited by: Vipar

Vipar wrote: I will think twice before trying to recruit on this forum again.

There IS a god

plinkie wrote:

Vipar wrote: I will think twice before trying to recruit on this forum again.

There IS a god

Try get rid of your god complex. It would help.

Vipar wrote: Right. It seems you might have read this thread wrong. This is not my first try either. This is one of many where I've gotten further and further. If this fails? I've gotten further than I have before, so I learn and try again at a later date.

I read your post, i've read the whole thread.
Hiring people on a royalty basis, where your willing to fail and try again, wont attract people looking for work, as theirs no guarantee they will get paid.
Did you consider even though you're willing to learn from failing, others may not be so inclined, I've been in your situation, people will not follow failure.

Vipar wrote: Changing direction is a mature thing to do. If you realize you can't make your goal and you (and the team I might add) want to take it in another direction to make sure a feasible goal can be met? I don't see the error in that.

If you're hiring for a fps horror game, then change it to a rpg horror, because you didn't get the attention you wanted, isn't good design practice, regardless of the changes, big or small.
If you consider when people are looking for work, they will look to work on something that interests them, if you change the direction, you may loose people that you wouldn't have lost.
How long did you give your first attempt before deciding to change direction?

Vipar wrote: I will think twice before trying to recruit on this forum again.

This forum unlike others, isnt scared to tell you the way it is.

While learning from failure is an option, considering more before making a decision can be a faster way of learning, or even by observation.
Isn't it better to make the right choice the first time, than failing twice?

Good Luck

Edited by: TKAzA

TKAzA wrote:

Vipar wrote: Right. It seems you might have read this thread wrong. This is not my first try either. This is one of many where I've gotten further and further. If this fails? I've gotten further than I have before, so I learn and try again at a later date.

I read your post, i've read the whole thread.
Hiring people on a royalty basis, where your willing to fail and try again, wont attract people looking for work, as theirs no guarantee they will get paid.
Did you consider even though you're willing to learn from failing, others may not be so inclined, I've been in your situation, people will not follow failure.

Vipar wrote: Changing direction is a mature thing to do. If you realize you can't make your goal and you (and the team I might add) want to take it in another direction to make sure a feasible goal can be met? I don't see the error in that.

If you're hiring for a fps horror game, then change it to a rpg horror, because you didn't get the attention you wanted, isn't good design practice, regardless of the changes, big or small.
If you consider when people are looking for work, they will look to work on something that interests them, if you change the direction, you may loose people that you wouldn't have lost.
How long did you give your first attempt before deciding to change direction?

Vipar wrote: I will think twice before trying to recruit on this forum again.

This forum unlike others, isnt scared to tell you the way it is.

While learning from failure is an option, considering more before making a decision can be a faster way of learning, or even by observation.
Isn't it better to make the right choice the first time, than failing twice?

Good Luck

You learn by doing. I learned that by making a thread here some of the people who've forgotten what it's like to be in my position turn nasty and portray their god complex.

It was at least half a year before we changed direction because we realized it was too hard. No one left because of the change.
In fact, people felt more engaged. There is a difference between being honest and being downright rude.

We prefer the "brutal" brand of honesty here. We don't wear kid gloves here. We don't care if we bruise people's egos. If someone's doing something stupid, we're going to tell them. Immediately. In no uncertain terms. Because most of us HAVE been in that newb's position before. Because most of us HAVE made those mistakes, and we DO know what's going through your head.

There's a difference between being rude, and being brutal, but honest.

TerranAmbassador wrote: We prefer the "brutal" brand of honesty here. We don't wear kid gloves here. We don't care if we bruise people's egos. If someone's doing something stupid, we're going to tell them. Immediately. In no uncertain terms. Because most of us HAVE been in that newb's position before. Because most of us HAVE made those mistakes, and we DO know what's going through your head.

There's a difference between being rude, and being brutal, but honest.

So you just told me, why you are being rude
If you know what's going through my head you should also know that this kind of approach will kill potential starters. I agree that some times this is needed because people have some weird or wild expectations. Some people have some completely screwed up look on how game development works. I am not one of those people. You know very little about me as a person yet you judge my entire amount of experience in this one thread. Being brutal is not better than rude.
It's just replacing one unnecessary Evil with another.

Edited by: Vipar

Vipar wrote:
If you know what's going through my head you should also know that this kind of approach will kill potential starters. I agree that some times this is needed because people have some weird or wild expectations. Some people have some completely screwed up look on how game development works.

Yes, the community will intentionally shoot down "idea guys" looking for others to make their game for them and other kinds of delirious plans to make for example AAA-quality MMORPG. It will be done in a brutal way, that is not intentionally rude but just void of meaningless flattery.

Prosperous an sensible, realistic projects will be given support and feedback but you gave little reason to think you wouldn't just be one of the delirious dreamers. You probably deserved all that has come to you with all the make-believe such as the huge logo and big words like "royalties" and "CEO" that the experienced of us can see right through.

Acting like a victim serves little point in your situation. Learn from this and make a proper entry next time.

Would you prefer that we be silent, or worse, yes-men?

If you can't take a little of THIS, and believe me, this is very minor compared to what you will find on the rest of the internet, you have no business being in the games industry. You have no business being an artist, period. This is me being upfront, frank, and honest. Your work will be criticized, scrutinized, torn apart, ripped to shreds, shat on, and you and your team will have your motives, your morals, your intelligence, your character, and your competence questioned. You will be judged by people with even less information than is in this thread, and almost nothing you do can shake those judgements once they've been made. People will do this in the most hateful, vile, hurtful ways imaginable. You will see at least some of this everywhere you go, with varying intensities, and varying motives. People will scream at you for the tiniest mistakes, the smallest bugs, the most insignificant deviations. This will increase by orders of magnitude once money gets involved. There are no words that can adequately describe the treatment you will receive once you get let loose into the greater internet. And right now, you are proving yourself a prime target for the all the man-eaters that swim this pond.

Compared to the rest of the internet, the brutal honesty you will find here on moddb/indiedb is practically angelic. And unlike the rest of the internet, we are genuinely trying to help you, both by pointing out where you are going wrong (and hopefully getting you thinking about ways to fix that) in a straight-forward, frank manner, and by throwing enough slightly-pointy sticks at your head to get you started on growing that thick skin. If someone can't take THIS, that is a sign they need to find another line of work, because there is just no way they could survive what everyone else is going to throw at them.