Banned: crazyike Thread - Dominions 3: The Awakening

Due to his behavior in the April Showers game thread, specifically this post and the abusive PMs sent to Calahan, forum moderator and administrator of that game, and after being duly warned of the consequences of continued abusive behavior, crazyike has been banned from the Dominions 3 forum.

In case any of you are wondering whether the decision to ban him was excessive, following is the text of the PM he sent to Calahan (sections quoted from Calahan in blue). I have said that I will not tolerate this kind of behavior in these forums and crazyike can serve as the example to show that I mean it. He has also already accused the moderators of abuse of power without any basis in fact, so there is no reason not to ban him since his behavior demonstrates that he will do so every time things are not done according to his wishes.

crazyike wrote: Hi Calahan.,

Hello Hinnom v2.0.

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First and most important, Hinnom wanted a twelve turn NAP a couple turns ago and I am holding to that regardless of who is playing it but it would be nice to know whether or not you feel you need to hold to previous agreements with fungi.

Now for your little temper tantrum.

I have many years experience of both playing in, and admining MP games.

I don't give a fuck. I was arranging games of diplomacy when going online meant logging into BBSes. It's not the point. Your ego requires you to flaunt that as often as possible, you go right ahead. But it doesn't impress me, and it doesn't impress other people either.

What the problem is is your idiot belief that you are the only one who is allowed to post an opinion because of your vaunted experience. Let me set you straight right now, son: it doesn't. If the idea that someone disagrees with you means you're going to post a metric ton of shit in the thread in some need to hold yourself up as the paragon of Dominions adminning, then maybe you should consider the idea that you aren't emotionally mature enough to handle the pressure as well. Someone who actually was mature in any sense would have been able to handle a request that they disagreed with without the meltdown you decided to engage in.

You remind me of the kid that had to run the projector in class. Some people can't be trusted with even the slightest shred of responsibility without it going to their head, and you are exhibit A. I don't know if its because your a socially maladjusted nerd or if there's some other problem that set it off, but it's not very pretty.

I'll just let you in on a little secret before moving to the rest of the crap you shat the thread up with. I still don't agree with you. Yes, your vaunted unmatchable experience just doesn't impress me. I might even post a contrary opinion to you again in the future. Are you going to be able to handle that, or are you going to sit down and cry again? I just want to give you the chance and time to prepare yourself for the shock.

So if you want to call me using my experience and knowledge to make a decision for what I believe to be the best course of action for this game, and giving priority to my own judgement based on said experience and knowledge, and above the opinion of someone with absolutely no comparable experience or knowledge on such matters, "my ego", then that's up to you.

Nobody called anyone anything. This is entirely from your imagination, your ego furious that someone disagreed with you. A very immature response. This whole "absolutely no comparable experience " makes that quite clear. You have no idea. You even hide your age. I'm not impressed. I may not have too many games of dom 3 under my belt... but I have plenty of dom 2 and probably was playing and ORGANIZING games based on the same sort of concepts (like Diplomacy, Shogun, etc) while you were still being made sandwiches for grade school by your mommy. A smarter man than you would understand the difference between "new to Dominions 3" and "new to games like Dominions 3". It doesn't impress me. You don't impress me. Everything about you makes me laugh. Everything about your ego makes me laugh even harder. You're a nobody who has found a little kingdom to try to lord over. Do you know what a tinpot dictator is? I'll let you look it up, but spoiler alert: it's you.

And whether or not anyone stales next turn will neither prove nor disprove anything, Since the sample size is ridiculously small. (but if you want to form a concrete opinion based on it then that's also up to you. But please forgive me in advance when I choose not to base firm conclusions based on a sample size of 1).

So what? Does that somehow mean you get to behave like a complete moron? Lol.

So one minute you are saying you are happy to see other players "stale to death", and the next you say you want to be treated with respect. I'm sorry, but saying you are happy to see players "stale to death" is not something that will earn anyone's respect around here. So if you want to be treated with respect then you are the one who needs to start showing it.

No, you really are. This quote shows how far your ego rage will go to twist things when you become angry, because I did not say that I just wanted someone to stale to death, only that I would prefer that to the game dying to too many delays. Oh yeah. You disagree with the idea that delaying causes problems, and therefore when someone posts an idea that this disagrees with it means OH MY GOD MY STATUS AS GOD OF DOMINIONS HAS BEEN CHALLENGED I MUST IMMEDIATELY THROW OUT A TEN THOUSAND WORD POST SHREDDING EVERYTHING ABOUT THAT PERSON I CAN.

You are a very small man. In every way, you are small. But it is interesting to watch a Napoleon complex in action.

I gave you an answer there relating to an almost identical issue, which you seem to have conveniently forgot about. Or did you think I'd suddenly be more warming in this game to your "just let players stale" attitude than I was in that game?

Newsflash, mr. ego: the fact you "gave an answer" doesn't mean I changed my mind. Oh yes, another challenge to your supreme ego - someone didn't immediately bow and scrape to your supposed "superior experience". Did you fall over dead in shock? It is immaterial in any event. I didn't bring it up in that game afterwards and I simply posted an opinion in this game about the problems with any more delays on top of the ones you had already done - delays I didn't have any problem with in the first place.

And know something else? I might do it again. Yeah, I know. Shocking. I'm still not bowing and scraping to your "superior experience". Can you handle that? Are you on the verge of tears that I'm just not that impressed with you?

If you waste my time in making comments and "voicing your opinion" which I have previously given you a response to, then you naturally start losing my respect. (or did you think I'd conveniently forgotten about that comment you made in my other game?)

This truly made me laugh. Should I care about "wasting your time" by typing a post? Who exactly is it you think you are? Seriously. Get over yourself, or once you get into real life (because I am having a hard time believing you are there from the sheer amount of immature stupidity you are displaying here) someone will do it for you. I'd love to be there when it happens. There is nothing funnier than seeing ego pricked.

Let me repeat: you are nobody. You are nothing to me. I don't care if a post "wastes" your time or not. The idea you think it should literally makes me laugh. I have never seen anyone so desperate for "respect" and so undeserving of it from a mere message board.
.

Calahan wrote: I acknowledge that players have the right to an opinion, but whether or not that opinion is valid is another matter entirely.

No one was forcing you to do anything. The problem is you seem absolutely driven to make sure that any opinion that differs from you is obliterated like it was barbarians at the gate. You are immature and unable to competently deal with this when it happens because you treat it as an attack on your vaunted experience: once again, raw ego.

A mature person would simply say "yeah i don't believe that's true so I am going to do such and such". And that's it. That's certainly not what you did.

The funny thing is, you're being fellated by a couple people who get off on kissing arse, so you probably won't learn from this experience at all. Or you'll learn all the wrong things. Not my problem, but when the inevitable happens, wish I could be there to see the look on your face.

And apologies have nothing to do with maturity, it has to do with people being genuinely sorry for whatever it is they did. But I find most apologies are entirely fake due to being made for no other reason than to gain back a few PR points.

I want you to take another look at the post that made you go off on your ego driven temper tantrum again. Here it is:

me wrote: No more delays after that please. I'd rather see him stale to death than be going the rest of the way with week long delays. That's what really kills games, not staling. Delays CAUSE staling.

It is very revealing that the first thing you said in response was a petty furious little pout about the fact that YOU are the admin and gosh darn it YOU needed to be acknowledged as such! How dare anyone else have a suggestion! You are the ADMIN! That makes you GOD! No one else should be DARING to make suggestions!

It showed your diseased mindset for everything it really was, right there.

Now, someone with enough intelligence to rate higher than a banana and the maturity to be out of diapers reads the same thing, and responds with "Yeah I don't agree with that, we'll do things this way." And that's it. Period.

So everything you said after basically that had absolutely nothing to do with my post and everything to do with your ego and its inability to handle contrary opinions.

This is on you. It's not me, or anyone else. It's you.

But nobody should expect me to simply ignore my years of admin experience just to keep individual players happy, and at the expense of the quality and validity of the overall game.

And no one asked for that. But of course, the ego must be sated.

I hope you, and other "I have the right to an opinion" banner wavers like you realise what the consequences of your actions are. Which is that experienced members of the community like myself simply won't be organising any more games for new players on this forum.

And this was the icing on the cake. I could have believed it was just a bad day until I got to here. You actually believe that withholding your august presence is a threat. That we should be privileged to have the opportunity to kiss the hem of your robe. Do you really believe you are doing something that is special? That no one else could do? You're running the projector, kiddo. You didn't actually make the movie.

You go on to talk about the private messages you've gotten. I got some too. I was told that this is not the first ego laden diatribe you've gone on. I was told you've had this superiority complex at other times as well. I don't think you'll learn from this one any more than you did from those.

So yeah. Don't admin games. I'm sorry, but you really aren't qualified for it. Oh sure, you have the vaunted experience you are so fond of mentioning, but emotionally you can't handle it. You freak out if you even PERCEIVE of a challenge, whether it really was one or not.

I used to play p&p games. One ran across tyrant game masters such as yourself from time to time. People who were only peripherally interested in the actual game, but were running them for the feeling of power it gave them to know they controlled some aspect of other people's entertainment. They often continued this way for years, oblivious to the way they were regarded by their ex-players who got tired of their bullshit. It was sad to watch then and it is sad to watch now.

So I agree. Stop adminning games after this. You aren't up to it. Give it a few years, get some perspective by leaving your comfort zone, and then come back able and willing to do it again without needing people to bow and scrape to you. Maybe learn that being new to a game does not mean being new to gaming while you are at it, so you don't make such a colossal fool out of yourself as you just did.

Now, feel free to ignore this, or respond to it, or even cry over it, but stop shitting up the game with your ego. We aren't there for you. I would have joined the game regardless of who hosted it, as would I suspect everyone else there. You are the least important person in it. Even if your vaunted experience and connections allows you to find a replacement, it would be good of you to remember the rest of us actually see it as just a game and would not be enormously put out if that didn't happen. A game doesn't have to be perfect to have fun with it. A quick tally will show that 90% or more Dom games end with at least several people giving up and either staling or going AI at some point as it is. It's pretty much expected to happen. Don't believe me? Shall we run through the games here and at shrapnel and see?

Indeed, you have already contributed to this in my own case with incidents in my March of the Newb game, where you complained about me delaying the game for someone (oh how odd, you are doing the exact same thing again in this game. What a coincidence)

Did I?

Here's the link: Indiedb.com

Doesn't look like I am complaining about it to me, but because it doesn't fall 100% in step with what you believe in, of course you take it as an attack on you personally. Oh how odd, you are doing the exact same thing again in this game. What a coincidence.

this incident here now, the ones you were a part of in my March of the Newb game, and incidents by others in another newb game I have running on this forum, have all but guaranteed that I won't be organising any more newbie games on this forum for a very long time, and likely never again.

Sounds fine to me. You really aren't up for it. I would much rather have an admin who understands they are not actually the star of the game. Follow sports at all? Know how referees sometimes interject themselves as if they were the point of the game? That's you right now. It's not a good thing. Stop doing it.

So congratulations. Award yourself a gold star and take a cookie from the jar. As your demand to "have your right to an opinion" just means all new players in this forum community lose out because there is now one less experienced community member who is willing to organise games for new players here. Wait make that two actually, because another regular non-playing admin and organiser contacted me after seeing the recent posts in this thread to say they won't be organising newbie games here either. Since some players seem determined to make that task far more hassle than it's worth to non-playing admins. So award yourself two cookies! one for each admin you helped drive away from organising games on this forum.

Nice! I hadn't seen a passive aggressive cry like that in years. A more pathetic plea for attention and support, for someone to rub your ego and tell you that yes, Calahan, you ARE the best and we should ALL be thankful that you have deigned to gift us with your presence, I cannot imagine.

But don't worry, there's always people willing to kiss arse if you look hard enough. You'll find toadies to fellate you again. Won't be me though. Frankly, I couldn't give two shits if you disappear from the community and never come back. You aren't important to me, and I think you'd find that the community could in fact survive without you as well.

Get. Over. Yourself.

Goodbye, Calahan, and see you in game, at least for a turn or two. Think about what I've told you. Re-evaluate whether or not you are adminning for other people, or for yourself. Consider the idea that people are not impressed with your supposed gaming experience and just laugh when you try to shove it down throats like you just did. Learn some humility.

Thank you very much Edi. We don't need that type here.

The discussion of who's rules count has appeared before with this forum. I think it's very prudent to say that rules from other places don't matter. The rules that count are the rules of this forum. Those rules are set by Desura, Illwinter and then the moderators of this forum in that order. I don't see why that is hard to comprehend. In this case, crazyike clearly broke the rules of the forum and insulted a forum moderator. IMO, fighting with a moderator is a banning offence. Moderation is a volunteer job and no one should have to take abuse for it.

Er, this may sound a bit hypocritical for those with long Dominions 3 history. But I have learned a few things since then. I would like to credit Tom Chick of the Quarter to Three forums with his decision to remove players that are a problem for him on a forum he owns. That clarified some very important things for me. When you own a forum it is your house. You can tell anyone to leave for any reason you want. It's your house.

Edited by: Maerlande

These do get interesting as the forum begins to take its shape.

Maerlande wrote: Er, this may sound a bit hypocritical for those with long Dominions 3 history. But I have learned a few things since then.

Just like Josef Stalin, Castro and other ex revolutionaries, power and responsibility has brought you to your proper senses

Internet drama at its best.

And some "mad skillz" here demonstrated by someone who used to organize Diplomacy games since before I was even born.
I am sure these mannerisms won him many-a-game.

Tbh, I am/was known as quite the troublemaker myself... and are usually the first to post some snarky remarks regarding bans.
Got some really bad experience with a truly abusive (bias much? ) admin that shifted my point of view to be blindly-sympathetic to the "powerless".

Yet in this case, and with the risk of unwillingly kissing some arses.
I would have to agree with this decision!
Crazyike went over the top... waaay over the top.

Most importantly, when told to shut up he didn't. The rest is gravy.

I personally wouldn't ban someone for that. Seems like there are better ways of dealing with the situation.

Crazyike you're welcome at the dom3mods forum, which has different rules but an awful admin and the worst mods.

It's seems from the numerous examples crazyike gives from his own life, that he has deep issues with power, authority figures, acceptance and understanding.

Hopefully, he took the banning as an opportunity to resolve those issues, thereby transmuting this seemingly negative event for him into a blessing in disguise.

Ive seen that happen many times. Something happens to get a moderator or staff to chat a member. They are asked to comply. The member tends to get punished more on the response than on the original offense. Followed by lots of posts about how unfair it was for a major punishment on the original minor offense. In almost any case a simple "Im sorry" is all that was required. Acknowledgement of "your forum, your rules, I will comply".

Ive admined worlds, moderated forums, op'd channels, and root-admined servers. I have always said that in almost every case when a member was removed it was voluntary. As far as I am concerned if someone is asked to comply but give a response like "Eff you. Nuke me!" then they have volunteered to leave.

The problem here was that crazyike flew right off the handle when things did not go his way. He tried to push again after that and when it didn't get him the result he wanted, he sent the extremely abusive PM that violates every possible variation of the fairly lenient rules of conduct we have here.

Even that did not get him banned, but only warned to calm down, step back and leave it alone. He refused and then threw in (not for the first time) an accusation of moderatorial and administrative abuse of power without any basis whatsoever in fact. That sort of behavior is typically used in an attempt to discourage enforcement of rules by moderators by casting them as jackbooted oppressors. It is usually done in the mistaken belief that the threat of accusation will get the accuser more lenient treatment and leeway to continue the behavior that drew scrutiny in the first place.

It is basically a fancy, passive-aggressive way of saying "I'm not going to play by the rules even though you ask. So what are you going to do, ban me?"

My answer to such accusations and that implicit question is "Yes, I am. Goodbye!" every time. I've seen it several times in the past in other forums and if someone is already making good on the threats that he is ostensibly only considering using unless he gets his way, I and the community in general lose nothing by dealing with the issue immediately instead of letting it fester. I've seen similar situations go down in other places where even after tricks like this, a troll has been given second chances and the only thing it ever did was emboldened them and ultimately came to the same end result, only after a lot more useless drama in between. This has the added benefit that if the first graphic example doesn't leave a lasting enough impression to discourage future behavior by other troublemakers, then subsequent similarly graphic examples will.

It should be noted that since the purpose of this community is to provide a venue for discussing Dominions 3, sharing information and organizing multiplayer games, I do NOT want to ban anyone. That doesn't mean that I will refrain from decisively swinging the Ban Hammer if it becomes necessary. The decisions are also going to be public, just like this one has been, precisely to provide a necessary measure of transparency and accountability to the process. When the community can see the decision making process and judge it themselves, it prevents an atmosphere of poisonous distrust from forming. It also provides a review mechanism for decisions, because if it ever happens that someone is unjustly banned, the community can publicly protest that decision and lay down the reasons why it's wrong.

So if I ever do happen to go off the deep end and turn into a power mongering maniac, I can be called to account. And if that happens, what am I going to do? Ban everyone who disagrees with me? There wouldn't be a community left and even before it got to that point I'd be removed by others with the power to do so.

I am amenable to the possibility of parole and rescinding a ban if there are good reasons for doing so. But I will have to be convinced first. In this particular case the arguments so far are not persuasive. Not at this time and not so soon after it. And in case of rescinding a ban and essentially giving a second chance, the person receiving such a reprieve would be expected to behave in an exemplary fashion. If anyone ever needs to be banned twice, the only thing that could reverse it is a Proclamation of Illwinter.

So, all of the above has basically not been stated outright in the rules of conduct thread, but perhaps some of it will be moved there. In any case, it is now here for everyone to see, so that there is no confusion about what policies apply when dealing with egregious violations, especially violations of the kind that led to this thread.

Of course then you get the "you know that you cant REALLY keep me out"

They get a new IP, and a new login, and sneak back in trying very hard not to seem to be the same person.
What they dont realize is... if they try that hard to not be the one that got banned, why should the staff care?
Go ahead. Sneak back in and pretend to be a nice person following the rules.

I think it deserves to be said that I am VASTLY more in favor of this banning system than the "system" that was used at Shrapnel, even though the rules are generally pretty similar.

Knowing why someone was banned is definitely helpful to users of the forum.

I can't help feel a certain sense of irony when he claims that Calahan types very long winded posts belittling people. Pot meet kettle.

I agree with those sentiments. It`s much easier to write a post when you have a clear understanding of the policies and consequences. Kudos to Edi for making this clear.

World is full of various people.
And for every inadequate and uncurbed man around there is even more inadequate and uncurbed man somewhere else.
I can only admire admin's forbearance in this case, especially Calahan's one. And kind of commiserate here as well - such a rampageous and inadequate feedback for such an altruistic efforts.

Knowing why someone is banned is helpful, altho printing a private message to do it is an interesting choice.
How would this ban be categorized? As arguing with the staff? Abusive language in a PM? Not being nice?

Being rude to the staff should be quite sufficient. They are volunteers and don't need that shit. It's quite enough for me at least. Arguing with staff over issues shouldn't be ban worthy unless someone gets obnoxious. And well, this guy was really obnoxious. There are other places you can be a jerk. The official forums shouldn't be one of them.