Comments - Lazy6pyro

Nope, the cannot animate like polys, but again, you can use some tricks with the voxel structure to "animate".

A nice video showing the concept and pitfalls of SVO animation: Youtube.com

It's not impossible to animate with Sparse voxel octrees, it's just difficult, time consuming and limited in it's use. The difference here is that a polygon can stretch, twist and turn but and a voxel cannot. You can move voxels it get the illusion of twisting and turning.
(a helpful video: Youtube.com)

Games are all about efficiency. Game developers do not have the massive budget, time, or the aid of real-life plates as in film work. Everything in the game has to be created and massaged (yes even objects scanned into models or motion capture data - both common in game and film graphics creation). If animating SVOs voxel by voxel or in groups via space-warps, that is going to mean an exponential increase in both development time and cost, and that's not for games. Right now, there is nothing that sparse voxel octrees can do that polygons (in large amounts) couldn't also do, and then polygons can do more. The question is not only how efficient is it on end user machines but how efficient is it for development.

This is basically just a sparse voxel octree system that's probably connected to a cloud sever backend (their website states that this tech will run on mobiles, too). The point clouds have no volume and are just points, so you have to give them volume and arange them into a grid to make sure there are no holes (voxels). Now, since you want an easy way to display the heirarchy you assing the voxels to a tree (most commonly an octree for 3D and a quatree for 2D). Now you only want to render the voxels in the shell, so you search for the the outer edges.

SVOs, like raytracing, radiosity and other algorithms are front-end heavy in terms of processing. Once the front-end is done, you can navigate them in real time (the assumption is that the only thing moving is the camera). So, it might take 10 minutes to load and piece all of the voxels together, but once you do you can navigate it in real-time with relative ease.

The issues here is a simplified animation system. Voxels and voxel trees, unfortunately, cannot rotate. Rather you can translate individual voxels in the tree and the scale adaptively to fill the holes. This becomes a huge problem for creating an animation pipleline, since any production animation is based around a small number of controllers that affect a polygonal mesh at different strengths per vertex. Creating fluid animations for SVOs would need to be a step backward into essentially pixel-art animations.

Sadly, you are ignoring the potential for using the platform as a basis for an entire new mod (total conversions). Take the CnC community for instance (an RTS franchise), with some of the older games, you can enjoy the traditional game, or hop into a WWII simulator, or a fantasy/sci-fi RTS or even a different take on modern warfare. Not only that, but there are plenty of forward and backward total conversions within the fiction of the franchise (ie: modders caring about the game, or at least the fiction that the franchise has brought).

I highly ecourage you to re-think your positions.

The modding community has already started to shift towards indies. Just look at how IndieDB has exploded in the last 5 years. The larger projects (total conversions) will continue to push into the indie scene because they have the freedom and the control they're looking form.

Were there actually any plans for a Project Reality for BF3? I know people may WANT it, but if there wasn't anyone willing to step up and give up their blood, sweat, and tears to make a PR for BF3, then the whole issue is a moot point.

Absolutely. Documenting how to use the software and packaging a turn-key solution for public use is an absolute nightmare. I was specifically hired by a headhunter to do just that for a company for a 1-2 month job...it ended going on 3 months. When you take software backend that wasn't designed to live on a single machine uncompiled (as most huuuuge turn-key solutions are), it because the insane task of finding and packaging all of the dependencies and all of the links, and eliminating all of the "**** it! We'll do it live!" patch-work, it's going to be a massive endeavor that DICE, understandably didn't want to partake in or sub-contract out.

Second, I see big mods for these new games waning when you have the potential upside and power of professional tools going free for indies in UDK, Unity and hopefully CryEngine 3. These tools, were designed from the group up with a broader audience (and not a specific turn-key solution), and hence allow more viability from the get-go. These weren't an option back in Source or BF2 days, and that's where I see the strongest skill-set modders eventually drifting over to.

I'm going to mirror Sketch.

Human motion is one of the hardest things to perfect in animation. It's not easy, nor is it easy to really figure out how we move beyond how we think we move. The engineer in its current state is a perfect example of how we think we move instead of how we actually move.

Human motion is never in lines: always arcs or circles
Human motion is full of overlapping actions and actions that have to happen to maintain our balance (the positioning of the belt/shoulder line when we walk like Sketch mentioned)
Human motion always has some causation because we have to get power for each action. An example would be before we jump, we crouch and lean in the opposite direction (anticipating action)
These are just a few of a collection called the Principles of Animation, and there are plenty of examples out on the web to help you understand and integrate each principle.

The essence of human life is that it's a pattern and randomness all together. There's distinct timing, but it varies. Best thing I can suggest is video take yourself, and really dissect the motion. I would also look up drawn out walk cycles and breakdowns of 2D animation, especially Disney..they are the masters at creating lifelike motion.

As n5p29 stated, this has been rehashed and rehashed too many times. Tiberium's development was a tumultuous one. It's been documented and documented even by many anonymous former workers that canning the game was in the end a necessary deed. The game had problems, but the dev team had even more problems, and that's why it inevitably got the axe.

It's not dead. Not many of us actively working on it, though. Once work clears up, I've got some things up my sleeve that will rejuvenate it.

Even if it's just using multiple Kinects, it's still expensive (but far, far less expensive than other motion capture rigs). However, you spend probably just as much time (if not more) cleaning up the point cloud data and morphing them to the rig (remember, most characters in Overgrowth appear to be humanoid but have different proportions than humans) as a seasoned animator would by just doing keyframe (traditional) animation.

Without a dedicated mo-cap arm, like some of the larger studios have; it's just way more effort for a marginally better animation than what a seasoned animator would produce.

Rigging is the creation of the bone structure, joints, their limitations, and the controls for the animator. Skinning is how the character mesh deforms to the rig (smooth/rigid skin), and weighting, is the adjustment of the skin to the degree one or more bones affect a particular vertex.

But, to be honest, the whole process is has several common-knowledge names like skinning or rigging. It's like when someone calls a mesh a model; sure there are minute technical differences if you want to split hairs, but most people use the names interchangeably.

I haven't gotten around to mess with Terragen 2, but it is by far the best pure terrain editor and renderer. Have you tried to see if the materials carry over well if you export it to Max or Maya?

Is that such a bad thing that modders will question the content of their work?

There is no "mod police" because ModDB isn't the only place to store, house, upload, or discuss modding content. It's the largest, sure, but not the only place. No one, not ModDB nor any of it's admins or users, are preventing the development or distribution of the SS mod; it is simply on their own dime (not ModDB's).

Mind you, this is the first mod that has been closed due to partially controversy. There have been loads of other mods closed or even denied because of either the use of stolen copyrighted work or and other criterai. I, for one, am not opposed to having stricter standards, as long as existing mods are grandfathered in.

As far as specific changes. I can only guess here, but since the whole point of the mod was to drive up such a ****-storm of controversy to be flatly-put ignorned was it's downfall here. Pawnstick nor any "anonymous" user on the team actually cared that ModDB was getting all of this hate mail. They never wanted to address the issue head on; they were more content to ignore, laugh, and troll. Frankly put, if I was running a company (ModDB and Desura are in-fact companies), and I had to take the time to respond, or even set up a mail rule to clean out my inbox from all of this hate mail I had nothing to do with; I would not only delete SS mod from the database, I would also BILL Pawnstick for my time in doing so.

The creators had the luxury of ignoring and even making fun of the controversy because they were anonymous; and no one was willing to be the name and face for which all flack was thrown at. No one was even willing to stand behind SS in name and identity. No, they were content at shoving that off to a third party (ModDB) and laughing at them too.

I think, in short, the whole lesson for this if that you are willing to be controversial and creative, don't hide your neck while sticking out someone else's neck to take the fall for you.

You're not understanding their point. They did make a decision for ModDB, as they are they leaders of ModDB. You aren't a part of ModDB as a company or even a website; you're a fan who has been allowed to use this website. That's all you are; that's all any of us are. No one is stopping from not being a fan anymore; you are FREE to click that X in the corner and choose to not participate in this "selfish" community anymore.

I have yet to see anything actually happen. Where is all of this distrust manifested? Why aren't Where are any actions? No one has DONE anything in response to this. Talk is cheap, Phil. Do something about it; if your assumption is correct, then people will join you. So far, no one has done anything about it, and I suspect nothing will be done about it. Because everyone is content to be a backseat driver, but no one wants to drive themselves. Step up.

Don't pretend that you're speaking for everyone here either. You're not. As the comments have shown; the community is just as "on the fence" as they were. There isn't a majority either way; it's divided just as it should be.

ModDB didn't pull Checkboard's own website; their ability to speak isn't being affected. They can continune working on their mod as their heart desires; they can even promote their mod as their heart desires.

You mention Westboro BC, but this is unlike that situation. They are on publically-owned land when they speak, and that speech is protected by the Constitution. They are free to speak as the wish on their website because they own the website and are not committing any illegal acts. Westboro, however, would NOT have the right to come onto my website and drag me into a messy public affair.

If you want to talk about a lack of freedom, look at their own forums. They screen each member to see if they will allow them to post. They will ban you for whatever reason they feel like (as long as it is the "majority" of admins), and if you are banned, your IP will be posted; allowing people to DDoS you or worse.

Well, thanks. Coming from you, that's a pretty big compliment.

He's three comments above you, named Pawnstick. He's just trolling all of you and ModDB. TBH: I give the website another update before I can't find any more avenues to troll and let's it die a successful troll mod.

You're loving this whole 4-page+ discussion stemming from your little experiment, aren't you?

You're freedom of speech ends where mine begins. The fact that ModDB itself received messages and threats is where it entered ModDB's domain.

You're free to click the X if ModDB is becoming a place that you don't support anymore. That's the beauty of the free Internet. You can still get all of the mods you want (albiet, probably not as easily), and you don't have to interface with a website in which you believe has failed the community. If the majority do actually believe what you assert, ModDB and Desura will fail.

When did "Big Brother" say so?

Last I checked Intense made his decision of his of free will.

MoDB isn't a government, and has nowhere near the power of a government. It's, simply-put, a well-known and privately-owned website. Here's why the Martin notes have zero relation: ModDB relies on the popularity to survive as a platform and a website. If they start shooing away a bunch of people that they disagree with, it is only in their own worst interested. They can't capture you; can't imprison you; can't kill you. If no one is left at ModDB, the website will simply die and we will all move on with our lives.

@card (my ******* self didn't comment correctly).

Freedom of speech doesn't exist on a privately-owned website; it does not and cannot apply. We can say all we want, but in the end, Intense and the rest of the ModDB crew are actually partially responsible for our actions.

That's the great thing about being a capitalist. Now, YOU can host him. Intense or ModDB have zero obligation to maintain the hosting of any mod; I don't think you get that. THEY built ModDB from scratch to what it is, with the leaches at Checkerboard were using to spread their propaganda.

IMO it was a terrible quality mod to begin with. It used way too many stock assets. No actual design implementation was shown other than a ho-hum shooting gallery just about anyone with a little bit of experience in Hammer could do. Why this was getting controversy...I don't know. You're not shooting kids, you're shooting HL2 scientists and rebels with a terrible, terrible re-creation of a selection of modern weapons.

This mod was nothing but an attention-seeking mod to show how messed up people are. If you disagreed with their principle, you were also a target by people making real threats against them over a mod. That's exactly why the posted reactions on the main page of the mod, because they wanted to show how knee-jerky people can be, but they didn't consider everyone else but them.

Sure, ModDB pulling the mod is a knee-jerk reaction, but it's one they had the ultimate right to do. Intense (contrary to popular belief) isn't censoring, just is not allowing them to use the already established paths to achieve it. They are welcome to create their own domain and promote their work that way.

It's both. Godwin is the artist, who is known for his digital paintings. Instead of a pure painting he did a photo manip with some painterly elements.

We're still here. Yes, we are preparing a few new updates. To sort of drop a hint about some of what's going to be in the next update: It's something that many of our current renders and screen-shots are notably missing. Both sides have it, or at least variations of it. What could it be?

Interesting story behind this. It was actually all done in a vector design program (Adobe Illustrator), which operates completely different than pixel-based editors like Photoshop. I probably spent a good three days alone working on the brushed metal texture in the barrels, but ran out of steam towards the end of the project. But for some reason the teaching aid loved the detail there so much that I literally taught a lecture on simulating textures in vector programs, and based my thesis for that class off it.