Comments - AmagnonX

I had a look at the vehicles - making a bike is pretty easy. The only issue is that weapon fire will always hit the vehicle not the player - Ill see if I can work around that - the only thing that Im sure I cant do - is provide graphics for it.

Public contracts (Laws) - can be raised to vote into effect - in our world it would appear on the net - in the post apocalypse world perhaps a message board in town plus radio broadcast - these will usually relate to land use - how to calculate rent for example - or what levels of pollution are acceptable etc. They might however relate to laws constraining certain activities to particular area's or specific rules such as carrying weapons, sale of drugs etc.

Voting - everyone has a vote and can directly vote on any public contract, on the other hand anyone can also delegate their vote to anyone else - ie. absolutely anyone. There are no parties or such like, those who hold the votes from a number of people will do so because people think they know what they are doing - these delegated votes can be retracted at any time.

Bank - the bank is the land office, and commodities exchange and is considered as land, that is, it is owned by everyone - bank income is part of rent and is payed out to everyone. The bank issues currency as loans against future income, this is at an interest rate which is enough to cover costs and provide an incentive for savers to deposit. The bank also issues future dated notes when it needs capital, these are valid bank notes but are sold at a discount and are future dated, they are not redeemable at the commodity exchange or bank until the date stamp has elapsed. These may be dated +1-5 yrs, no more and the balance of payments is public record so the bank needs to ensure that it has accumulated enough commodities to match its credit issue.

Currency - the currency is exchangeable for goods on the commodities exchange, and the unit of account is based on the wholesale price of chicken eggs - which are in constant over supply and therefore their price reflect the labor costs of producing and retailing them. This market is almost impossible to manipulate because people can produce eggs anywhere, they cannot be saved up to flood the market, so supply and demand cannot be easily altered. The price of eggs is in fact the price of eggs and one of the most stable prices available to use as a unit of account. One unit (credit, or dollar) buys one dozen eggs from the commodities exchange and all other prices are calculated against this unit of account.

Thats an overview of my feelings on proper socio-economic organization - not sure what or how you are implementing your idea's - just thought Id throw in my 2c :D

I read your intro more carefully and see you are looking for the anarchist utopia feel - as it happens I certainly have some views on what kind of social organization should be in place now, and one that could certainly be applied in a post apocalypse world.

Land - is owned by everyone who lives in the region, all land attracts rent, the rent is payed to the local bank, and the bank divides the rent and then pays it into the accounts of everyone equally - this information is totally transparent and watched carefully. Land also includes pollution, fishing, forestry, and mining - it also includes broadcast frequencies and anything that is not a product of human labor is identified as land. Land use of renewables is sold by contract through the bank on an exchange, bids are placed and contracts are sold for a period of time - varies with the type of land, fish by the tonne per year for example.

Law is a public contract - signed by everyone who wants to enter the region, it consists of a number of central contracts.

Natural law - "Dont mess with people or their stuff without permission." is the basic agreement, along with an agreement to serve as sheriff's deputy, juror or emergency response when requested (by elected officers, Sheriff, Magistrate, or Marshall - the election and details covered by another contract).

Another contract specifies that disputes will be settled either by a three person elected tribunal (if both parties agree on this method), or otherwise by 12 person jury. Tribunals are cheaper, faster and the people are more educated - on the other hand they may be biased in some way.

Another central public contract will also specify how much of a majority is needed for a public contract to go into effect - by default it is likely set at 65%.

No prison or such things exist but the death penalty likely does. However most things are resolved by fines, and if the guilty party is unable to pay then forced labor may occur until the fine is payed. The fine is payed to the injured party, along with some payment for the trouble of forming the court.

Could you explain how you 'mixed' them together exactly? How does it work?

Actually - on the topic of 'useless' loot - stuff the players cant use, these items could be part of an endless 'Turn In' quest. That is, some NPC will reward the characters for each item of the correct type they turn in.

So a weapons merchant might take any boxes with the 'Gun' icon for example and pay out the characters with cash or ammo. A farming community might take all the boxes of agricultural supplies ('Shovel' icon), a town with a factory can use the tools, 'Wrench' icon, and most places could use the consumables 'Box' icon (bags of flour, soap, cooking oil etc).

Actually its probably worth making a special icon for gasoline, eg. 'Gas Can' - there are a heap of different quests and places it could be useful.

Not sure of the difference between modify and create - players are fairly particular about their characters names - so thats a 'very nice to have'. Even if you need to include some arcane method for players to give their character the name they want, I would consider it necessary. Ie .. if they need to modify some file - they will learn how to do it to get the name they want - so long as the mod delivers a superior game experience.

Removing all tags imo is a good idea, although I suggest all characters get tagged 'Small Guns' - in the vanilla they are all soldiers, and in any scenario where they must survive the Wasteland, the first thing they need to know is how to shoot - so I would tag that skill for everyone.

Outdoorsman - access to special encounters is valuable (given that special encounters are improved over the vanilla version), sounds like an excellent improvement. Perhaps 'Recon' might look better on the skills list than 'Travel'.

One last thing I thought of - it seems you are having a look at vehicles - not sure what you are possibly doing with the pilot skill .. but I did have a thought on it - motorcycles.

If its possible to make a one person vehicle, then the motor cycle would be an excellent piece of machinery to capitalize on the pilot skill. Once again, I dont know whats possible, but locking its use to only characters with say 75, or even 100 pilot would make the skill in demand.

It could carry maybe 150lbs and you can shoot from it, such a small vehicle could navigate most maps and assist with carrying out loot, and also could be used to charge enemy positions - just a thought - maybe a bit of a stretch, but if it could be pulled off with the current game mechanics then the 'Mad Max' look is sure winner.

Ammo - I think we had a slight miss-communication regarding ammo - I think it should be in plentiful SUPPLY from vendors - but it should be expensive. Drop rates can be low - your suggestion of dropping to 1-2 is fairly extreme - I was thinking more of 5-10. However, it should be expensive enough that players want to conserve where possible, so if you can hit something in the back of the head with a baseball bat, or shoot it down - you might give some serious thought to the cheaper option.

The abundance and expense aspects should apply doubly to specialty ammo - in the vanilla game you could never really acquire enough specialty ammo to load it for an entire mission - like JHP or AP - I think this is a poor idea. This ammo really works and should be plentifully available - but expensive. Its availability should be restricted until completion of a specific mission, and subject to an appropriate level - it is especially good as a reward for optional objectives. Once it appears on the vendors there should be a heap of it - several thousand rounds.

I added 7.62AP and 50calAP (DU is also optional) in my game - and I think these should have been added in the original - these ammo types give some extra life to weapons vs heavy armor - extending the utility of some weapons - this means you can delay the introduction of superior energy weapons and make the players tough it out a few more missions.

However, even though this kind of special ammo might be there - the players need to be able to afford it! The 'I want, but I cant afford' problem will send players out into the wastes to gather resources - ie. crap to sell for cash.

On the subject of expense - armor - it is waaaay too cheap. I remember on my first run through I had browsed some forum and some guy had cheated using the gambling skill and said he had 200k saved when power armor became available. I took this to mean that power armor cost 200k a suit, and I managed also to save about 200k (by carrying out everything not nailed down from every mission) when I first saw power armor.

I was disgusted that I could buy it for about 12k - I had really thought that 200k was the price. While most players simply wont have the patience required to carry out every rivet in every mission and acquire that kind of cash - I think that dangerous special missions in the wastes can be used to provide an entertaining way for players to accumulate enough cash.

Money shouldn't come easy, and much grinding should be required - but the foot dragging encumbrance rules are just that - a bit of a drag - but grinding dangerous special encounters in the wastes is a reasonable alternative path to accumulating that kind of money. If drop rates on stuff from missions is unchanged - then I would recommend that armor prices can be increased five fold (x5). You only need to buy it once - every piece should be long admired in the mirror.

On the topic of wandering the wastes in search of crap to sell, let me opine on the subject of money.

Money - there should always be things available to buy that players really want, but simply cant afford - that provides motivation to keep doing missions or looking for trouble in the wastes. I am aware that this is my opinion on play style and game feel - and these are often fairly personal and variable - but after playing many games for a long time I have found that players get bored if there is nothing to buy and money is useless, they also get bored if everything is available and they own it all. The other possible way to get it wrong is if players cant afford to load a round into their guns - however, this is lowest on the list of ways to get it wrong. This can be countered by making the previous level ammo abundant - so 9mm for example might drop a lot - but they really need 7.62 or 5.56 - but perhaps they have run out, and have to use the 9mm to scrape through.

The right balance is always to show them what they cant afford, but not the stuff they can only dream about, and make sure they are always hungry and the bank account is empty.

Overlapping - if the player has an initial vision of fully equipping his team with all HK's and MkII Leather Armor, maybe some special weapons like auto SG's or good SMG's, when they finally achieve it - for gods sake, let them enjoy it for a few missions. Many games mess this up - and no sooner do you achieve the gearing you wanted then suddenly all new upgrades appear and your current set up seems worthless. Before introducing upgrades, let the missions push that equipment set up to its limits - also let the player enjoy massacring the next mission or two by being slightly over geared - after all, if they ground up those resources from the wastes - they worked for it.

In short, all the level appropriate weapons and ammo that a player needs to do missions should be available on vendors - the player should not start with it - neither should they be able to purchase it until they have done their time in grinding some encounters in the wastelands. When they have a basic and level appropriate set-up with ample ammo, then they can attempt the next mission. If that mission unlocks new weapons or armor - then wait maybe two to three more missions before adding the next layer of gearing - a single piece of armor or weapon from the next level is reasonable for completing a difficult optional objective - and also unlocking a stash of specialist ammo on the vendors is a good payoff for an optional objective.

On that note - I'll offer my own opinions on what gives a game longevity - what makes you come back for more.

Slow and difficult progression - the slower the xp progress, the more missions and encounters you can have before you start to hit skill limits or get over powered - and over powered = boring. It is the dream that keeps you playing and coming back for more - the dream of forging your little band of misfits into a slick machine that is a terror to everyone that dwells in the wastes - a dream that should not be easy to accomplish.

Missions - I think missions should be hard, fkn hard and they should drain resources - ammo, healing etc ie. not too much high value gear available to sell off .. the pay off for missions should be (my opinion) unlocking stuff from merchants, good xp bonus and skill books - these are the reasons why you throw yourself into the teeth of the enemies guns. The other pay off can be vehicles, and an occasional piece of armor or a solitary weapon that is ahead of your current progress (these are useless without sufficient ammo - so it should be on sale or drop with the weapon in useful quantity).

The Wastes - this is where I think players should be spending some more time, but they need a reason. I think in contrast to missions these should go over fairly easily - though tough encounters could be thrown in for shock value. This is where you can increase drop rates and make these a place where the player accumulates resources so they are ready for missions. After all - you usually drop in on top of the poor unsuspecting wasteland inhabitants, guns blazing - right on their camp, where their stash is - and you kill them before they have a chance to unload all their ammo on you. However - you dont expect them to have anything special, crappy armor, boring weapons and vanilla ammo. However, grinding out encounters (in my opinion) is where the money should come from to equip for the next mission, but the until you complete that mission - the good stuff that you really want - wont appear on vendors.

Special Encounters - these are an excellent way to prep players for missions. The original specials are (goes without saying) just junk, but this space can be used for some very useful things. Two ideal and generic types of encounters are detailed below.

Caravan - well armed guards, transporting items the players can sell - perhaps by brahmin pack, or cart or such - some vehicle useless to the players - or optionally maybe a useful vehicle like a jeep.

Hideout - Raiders, Mutants, Reavers etc - well armed and in good position, lots of valuable stuff to take away.

Apart from the weapons and ammo carried by the defenders, loot should be more or less useless except for sale - basics like food, water, gasoline - special stuff like solar panels, machine parts and tools - lathes, drills, saws, etc and also stuff that can be used for weapons or ammo manufacture, saltpeter, sulphur, charcoal, lead ingot, steel ingot, brass ingot etc. Perhaps agricultural equipment - pumps, rakes, shovels etc. You need not spend any time on making icons or graphics - players wont care much - they want to know how much it weighs and how much they can sell it for. Perhaps a simple 'Wrench' icon to show tools, 'Box' icon for consumables, 'Gun' icon for weapons manufacture and a 'Shovel' for agricultural supplies- prices might vary depending on where players try to sell these kinds of goods - not sure if that's possible.

Hi again,

First aid > Survival - sounds like a very interesting idea, however a lot of healing is done by this skill - so it does need to be able to be used easily - and you dont really want people sleeping mid combat :D I think it sounds like a great idea, but will need a bit of thought in implementing to ensure injuries can all be healed up and people arent sleeping through combat :D

I was also thinking that the doctor bag and repair kits should represent expensive stuff that characters will use as a last resort - the medical bay or mechanics bay in towns or bunkers or whatever could be changed to allow repair of vehicles and people quite cheaply - but you can only avail yourself of that between missions. So the choice will be - do I retire that character from the fight, or leave the vehicle in a safe place in order to conserve resources, and repair/heal after the mission - or are they critical to progress right now?

The repair kits and doctors bags should be in ample supply - but I think making them more expensive would provide more challenges and tough decisions.

Gambling > Search sounds like a good way to get rid of a useless skill and introduce a useful one. Is there any way that it could improve the drop rate, or stack size of ammo or other items for example during missions? Search is a fairly unexciting name for a skill - perhaps Foraging or Scrounging might suit?

Barter > Negotiation - also sounds good, I assume that it would still function normally - because I think money should really be a critical device in the game.

First Aid kit replaced by sleeping bag? haha - wow - thats creative thinking. I really like the idea - I dont quite understand how it is implemented, but it sounds really interesting and a good solution.

Great stuff :D That does get rid of perhaps one of the dumbest skill in the list - throwing .. what were they thinking?

The other really major annoyance for me was energy weapons - it would be nice if all the energy weapons were either tagged small or heavy - any chance that will go ahead?

And as a last note - do you plan on tossing gambling out entirely? I really hope so - of course there is the option of simply never doing it - but seeing it removed would be be very nice to see.

I guess I may as well keep going .. it should go without saying that the low value skills need to be increased in value. This can be done by making them more rewarding.

Oh .. and also I should have pointed out that in the above suggestion books would need to be modded to raise both relevant skills.

Engineering - so this skill value could be increased by inserting broken items into the game that can be repaired - unique weapons, armor and so on that can only be created by repairing some broken entity - once repaired it can be picked up into inventory. The science skill aspect could be increased in value for example by a quest such as finding a computer terminal that says "You have accessed the technical library - chose a book to print." When they hit print it says - "Error: Printer is out of paper" Then run around find paper and load the printer, and print off a book - find more paper (such as on special encounters in the wastes) and return to print another book. Also repair could be used to repair a broken power generator that opens gates to special area's - you might need to do a side quest to locate and bring a "Can of Gasoline" though - for example.

Recon - Outdoorsman skill can be be greatly improved in value by adding more special encounters that have specialty merchants - with nice items that might raise stats, add perks etc .. or simply lead to encounters which yield a hard fight and good loots. Snekaing is a pretty good skill by itself, but it also could be employed to gain value by sneaking past indestructible turrets or such .. and switching off their power to enter special area's.

Barter is not too bad, but once more could be enhanced if everything on merchants and QM's is extremely expensive and lootable items from missions are rare.

Rare and expensive ammo will also enhance the value of Hand to hand characters.

Pilot could be enhanced if vehicle speed could be increased by a good piloting skill - not sure how this could be implemented - perhaps this could be done as a quest - drive an obstacle course for example - and trigger an action to increase the vehicle speed. It might also be possible for characters with high piloting to drive over regions that block characters with lower skill - not sure if this is possible to implement. More maps which allow vehicle access also means better value from pilot skill. If entities can check lockpicking skill for example - can they respond to pilot skill? Can you do a quest or interact with an entity based on piloting to improve a vehicles performance - such as speed, or armor class? Not sure - but these are just brainstorm idea's to try to improve the value of some of the skills which need some love.

Sabotage - this skill could be enhanced by adding traps that are light to carry but cover a larger area - the concussion grenade provides a stun mechanic - so perhaps large area stun traps could be created and used by sabotage specialists. More monsters that rush at the group will also provide more use for traps skill, as will dangerous traps on safes with special, rare, expensive or unique items in them.

Anyhow - Ive written a book, time to stop - and I look forward to your mod very much.

Regards,

Ax.

Hi,

Looks like an awesome mod, and I will add my idea here, something that has really bugged me about this game - not sure if it can be implemented, but I think it is very logical and I think a lot of people have shared my annoyance with the rather poor skills system.

I would like to see certain weak skills consolidated to make a smaller set of better skills. If the GUI can be edited then it could be done purely by changing the interface - so when you click on one skill it raises another invisible skill at the same time. This will make raising the skills cost double - you are effectively getting two skills - however, all skills could be tagged if this is seen as too high cost.

The idea is to alter the GUI to display a new skill name, but it will refer to an existing skill but when it is clicked to raise it, then an invisible skill will also be raised at the same time. So for example the skill displayed could be 'Medicine' - and when you click it, then Doctor and First Aid are both raised. I include the full details below.

The skill list could then be reduced as follows;

Weapon Skills

Small Arms - display small guns, and link energy weapons
Heavy Weapons - display big guns, link melee
Hand to Hand - display unarmed, link throwing

Tag all unarmed, throwing and melee weapons as 'Unarmed' - this means they will all use the displayed 'Hand to Hand' skill. For the character who raises 'Hand to Hand' skill they will be able to use all thrown weapons very well, which is consistent with a physically powerful and agile character. They will also be able to use all of the melee weapons very well - because all melee weapons will be tagged 'Unarmed'. This also solves the problem of the bugged 'Slayer' perk - in that all melee weapons will be tagged unarmed, and so will work with this perk.

Therefore, even though 'Heavy Weapons' will be raising melee weapons, it will be no practical use because there will be no melee weapons in the game. It is only included so that all of these revised skill have double cost - because they raise two skills at once. This is a bit of a penalty to the heavy weapons user, but this is a nice skill and heavy weapons dominate a lot of the game so double cost is reasonably rationalized.

On the other hand, if it is deemed that grenades should not be able to be used well by the 'Hand to Hand' character, then they can be tagged as melee weapons. I am not sure how the game would treat grenades tagged as melee - but one hopes that they would simply check the melee skill to see how far they get thrown, rather than act as an actual melee weapon - not sure how this works. Anyhow, if they do still function as ranged weapons, then the Heavy Weapons specialists will be good at throwing grenades - which also makes logical sense.

For the 'Small Arms' skill for example, points spent will raise both small guns and energy weapons - but the percentage displayed will be 'Small guns'. So when such a character equips an energy weapon, it will check their energy weapon skill, but this should be very close to the skill that is displayed 'Small Guns'. It is likely possible to edit the characters prior to game launch to ensure that these skills have identical values.

The following is a list of all the other skills consolidated into pairs with a new name. Gambling is widely understood to be a bad idea that just opens up exploits, so it can be removed entirely and all NPC's with gambling could have it removed.

Primary Skills

Medicine - doctor + first aid
Engineering - science + repair
Logistics - barter + pilot
Sabotage - lockpicking + traps
Recon - outdoorsman + sneak

In this case, when a character with the medical skill uses a First Aid kit, then the First Aid skill will be checked by the game engine - but this should be close to, or better than the displayed skill of 'Doctor'.

This conversion to simple skills gets rid of masses of very stupid and redundant skills that have very little game impact, and characters will tend to have sensible specializations - especially doctor for example, it doesn't make any sense that they can have high in doctor yet not do first aid.

Anyhow, it would be nice to see this nice clean set of skills appear on the character screen, simple and consolidated and actually useful. Whether skills are all tagged, or even can be tagged is purely a matter of taste and balance. It probably makes most sense to simply tag all skills at the outset.

Note that this will make characters a bit more flexible, but will limit their rate of advancement - getting super high skills will be more difficult.

Hope this makes sense, and hope that others see it as a useful change.

Regards,

Ax.