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T-34/85 and SdKfz 181 Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger
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Two of the finest tanks in the history of armored warfare.
The King Tiger was excellent and greater than the Tiger I but too rare to change the outcome of the war. BTW, for those of you who aren't aware, that Tiger I in this image is the exact one that starred in the movie, 'FURY'. Beautiful restoration of it nonetheless, too.
what's more interesting is that it's the ONLY tiger tank still in working order.
ONLY common version Tiger, they have Porsche Tiger working in tank museum in Czech.
"Porsche" Tiger?
maybe Henschel Tiger or ersatz tiger with t-34 chassis?
It might be a replica as you say, now I'm not sure about it anymore. You just ruined it...
In czech is replice of tiger built on T-34 for movie
Achtungpanzer.com
These are in such a good condition they almost look like newly painted miniatures =)
p.s. 'Fury' sucked.
I think I died with the infinite but completely inaccurate Panzerfaust spam at the end...
Indeed, I'm pretty sure a real SS platoon officer would have came up with a better tactic to destroy an immobilized tank... I mean, anything but charging recklessly with rifles and hip-firing panzerfausts would have done the job, but hey that's just my logic. The sheer amount of USA glorification in the movies is staggering. This movie sucked so badly it even hurts my head to think about it.
I loved the tanks themselves, what with them being real and all. But yes, the movie was way over the top with its murica-ness.
And here we see the a simple, reliable, powerful rugged beast of war accompanied by an overengineered, overpriced, overweighted piece of contraption strapped with a massive cannon that is indirectly responsible for its nations defeat.
True, but it was the most legendary out of all tanks in the history of tank warfare. It had such a huge fear factor, that every other German tank in that war from the time they made it then on was though to be a Tiger, even light tanks on some accounts.
But yes, the Germans were FAR too ahead of themselves to keep up with their own technology. Hitler was so self prided in this that it made them lose the war, in which led to Germany's defeat. Although, to be honest, the German were quite lucky to make as many of those Heavy Panzers throughout that whole war.
I think Tiger I was a success and I'm not from Tiger's fanboys. That massive cannon was first class in it's time. The rest of the tank is somewhat boxy and perhaps if they made sloped armor, they could save up some weight on it. Concerning mechanical failures, well, it was more complicated piece of machinery and needed proper care. Otto Carius wrote in his book that those cursed air filters they had to replace and clean every 60 km were in fact well made and volume of air which went trough them in 60 km was 170 000 liters (I don't remember exact numbers correctly, but this is close).
It was a heavy tank with all it's pros and cons... Without it, germans would have just PzIV which is like a piece of junk compared to T34/85. On the other hand, Kingtigers only look nice, but making an expensive tank when you completely lost air superiority is a total ******** even if the machine itself was reliable and had enough spare parts... spare parts are problem when your factories get bombed...
I think this article does well with addressing a lot of the myths surrounding the Tiger, and the Wehrmacht in general.
Ftr.wot-news.com
The Soviet's ability to call on copious amounts of artillery fire and their excellent ground attack aircraft essentially nullified the advantage heavy tanks offered. Later with tanks such as the IS-2 even the KT was matched.
On the Western Front the Sherman Firefly could do the work along with the obvious aerial dominance. Given a Typhoon's rocket salvo was the equivalent of a barrage from a six inch cruiser gives an idea of how the War was evolving, and leaving heavy tank philosophies in the dust.
Also I down voted CommanderDef by mistake, someone please fix kindly.
I've read that article before, and I have to say I'm not impressed by it. Much of it replaces the current myths of WWII with new ones. It does tend to over-hype the Soviets and bash the Germans a bit too much. While some are true, the most outrageous one I have to say is the one about the Waffen-SS.
What you say about the King Tiger and the IS-2 does not sound right. Under normal (not all of the time) battlefield conditions the King Tiger would turn an IS-2 into a smoking wreck. The IS-2 was more of a counter to the Tiger I and Panther, the IS-2 performed well against both of these tanks when initial problems were solved.
On the Western Front, even the normal Sherman could match the German Panzers present in Normandy provided it had the M61 APCBC shell. And the Fighter-Bombers were a factor but not a complete one: Ftr.wot-news.com
I read somewhere that IS-2 commanders would simply plug a 122mm HE into the Tiger II, which would concuss the crew and trash their optics enough to close the gap. If the Tiger II had the range advantage, yes it would nail IS-2s left right and centre. But as the article states, engagements rarely extended beyond ranges of 700m, so take from that what you will. The article seems to agree that the IS-2 could stand toe-to-toe with the KT as well.
The compiler of that article doesn't say the T-35-85 was god-like, simply it was better than what the Germans were fielding, which by the time it arrived, it was.
Kursk proved how well aerial "tank"busting support was, on the Eastern Front anyway. Il-2 kill counts were usually pretty exaggerated, but even without exaggeration the numbers still show a force to be reckoned with. It's the not so obvious psychological effect that it would of had on the German crews that was probably a major factor as well. Keep in mind I'm not talking about particularly hard targets, I'm talking logistics trains, softer vehicles etc. of which there were many at Kursk.
The odd thing is that I have read a few eyewitness accounts from books etc. that (particularly on the Western front) claimed the air support from ground attack aircraft such as the Mosquito or Typhoon or Thunderbolt were a wonder to behold, eliminating targets such as Tiger Is. Going by that thinking I'd assume the same could be done to the KT, or later German Super Heavy projects such as the Maus, perhaps even easier given these tank's size.
As for your thinking on the M4 vs. T-34, that's completely up to debate. I don't personally know either way and don't really care to be entirely honest. Reality is that the T-34 and its later iterations did the most fighting in World War II, and it certainly was the single most pivotal vehicle of the war.
"Germans would have just PzIV which is like a piece of junk compared to T34/85"
Pz-IV H would like to have a chat about that. And Panther is not amused.
To put it this way, the T-34 was a good tank. But it was (and still is) enormously overrated alongside the Tiger. It was a great tank against the earlier Panzers but against the later model Panzers it was outclassed for some time until the '85' version came into service.
In my opinion however, firepower and armour statistics wise I think the Sherman was the better tank (Yes as hard as it is to believe). The Sherman was also built in similar numbers to the T-34. Knowledgeglue.com
About T-34 vs M4
I don't think that you should take my words serious, because I'm not the one to have an argument about statistics, but "The more you fly, the more you fall.". Yes, M4 and T-34 had similar numbers, but try to swap T-34's and M4's places. The Eastern front in general was a way worse place, so of course there would be more T-34 losses, taking in account the battles it went through.
I usually try to avoid M4 vs T-34 threads, because they consist of "Horray-Patriots":"T-34 is the best because it's Rooshun", "M4 is the best because it's 'murica"
In my eyes both of them were cannon fodder except latter modifications of the both, but Sherman was burning better because of leather seats for the crew.
ITT: soviet fanbois vs wehraboos
dangerous terrain
-_-III You said it man........