Why didn't arrow fend work? Thread - Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension

I am going to post this game, even if it gives away all my stuff to my opponent, because frankly, I am really shocked with this silliness.

Machacka vs Vanheim, Pnophia (20), fire arrows vs arrow fend. He fires a volley of fire enchanted "projectiles" against shielded units with arrow fend, approximately 220. I counted the hits, which totaled just over 130. That flat out, should not happen. Fire arrows, a level 4 enchantment, can overpower it's hard counter, a level 6 enchantment, against UNITS WITH SHIELDS.

Is arrow fend just another one of the many wonderful noob traps this game has to offer? Why did I lose this battle? And if not arrow fend, how the heck do you stop flaming arrows? Why doesn't arrow fend stop it?

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it kinda looks like the fire hit is ignoring the air shield. Looks buggy.

Arrow fend should stop it prolly, unless magic projectiles are intended to go through air shields. not sure

You were winning the fight militarily, you just routed first

Against that array of fire magic and projectiles a Storm (evo-5) would be a good idea. Storm makes fire magic harder to use and makes projectiles inaccurate. However, it would shut down your flying pretender.

Edited by: deadlyshoe

Arrow Fend is definitely not a noob trap. It works great against conventional bows, and projectile spells like Blade Wind. I can't speak to whether is has a funny interaction with flaming arrows.

Hey, i won? awesome. ( haven't played my turns yet) I need a bit of luck being attacked by you and agartha :p

I actually forgot about that spell, i was thinking you need fire protection to counter me and thought you had no fire magic.

But yeah that should have countered fire arrows, i would be annoyed too.

edit
Just watched it, I don't think the air shields had any effect at all. I'm assuming that magic can deter normal arrows but not magic arrows.

Anyway, nice battle. It was a pretty close one.

Edited by: Bhoona

That sounds like a bug.

I would venture to guess that air shield protects against certain types of projectiles only, and since flaming arrows changes the projectile type, it's ignored by the air shield.

kasnavada wrote: That sounds like a bug.

it also seems to me

Yes, Bhoona, it's been a good fight. I really thought I could surprise you with arrow fend. But it seems I just wasted a lot of research and time. You've probably got this one, now.

I..actually always assumed arrow fend would work vs magical projectiles (but not these that are actually from spells). This is a big, big thing.
I'm not sure it's QUITE a bug, but it definetely deserves some thought.

Perhaps magic-enchanted projectiles should have only have half the % (so 40 instead of 80?) of being turned away instead?

Also, I wonder if arrow fend works vs 'huge' projectiles like boulders.

I'm pretty sure that fire arrow is aoe, so how can it really miss? Sure you miss with the arrow but it's the fire that does the most damage with it.

in dominions 3 i believe it almost negated flaming arrows but im not 100% sure

KingVandal wrote: I'm pretty sure that fire arrow is aoe, so how can it really miss? Sure you miss with the arrow but it's the fire that does the most damage with it.

The arrows need to hit to do the extra fire AP damage, no? Unless I completely misunderstand the enchantment.

(Btw, is anyone else a bit surprised air shield is always 80%? No lower, ever? I think Dom3 had something like a lower air shield as a bless?)

KingVandal wrote: I'm pretty sure that fire arrow is aoe, so how can it really miss? Sure you miss with the arrow but it's the fire that does the most damage with it.

First time I heard of that. IIRC it's single target.

David88 wrote:

KingVandal wrote: I'm pretty sure that fire arrow is aoe, so how can it really miss? Sure you miss with the arrow but it's the fire that does the most damage with it.

(Btw, is anyone else a bit surprised air shield is always 80%? No lower, ever? I think Dom3 had something like a lower air shield as a bless?)

In dom3 the air bless work in this way:
Air 4 - Air Shield (20%)
Air 5 - Air Shield (30%)
Air 6 - Air Shield (40%)
Air 7 - Air Shield (50%)
Air 8 - Air Shield (60%)
Air 9 - Shock resistance (75%) & Air Shield (70%)
Air 10 - Shock resistance (75%) & Air Shield (80%)

In dom4:
A4 = + 2 Precision
A6 = +3 Precision
A8 = +4 Precision
A9 = +4 Precision and Air shield (80)
A10 = +5 Precision and Air shield (80)

And all spell that give Air Shield (both dom3/dom4) give an Air Shield 80, so the sub-partial Air Shield no longer exist.

Grigio87 wrote:

David88 wrote:

KingVandal wrote: I'm pretty sure that fire arrow is aoe, so how can it really miss? Sure you miss with the arrow but it's the fire that does the most damage with it.

(Btw, is anyone else a bit surprised air shield is always 80%? No lower, ever? I think Dom3 had something like a lower air shield as a bless?)

In dom3 the air bless work in this way:
Air 4 - Air Shield (20%)
Air 5 - Air Shield (30%)
Air 6 - Air Shield (40%)
Air 7 - Air Shield (50%)
Air 8 - Air Shield (60%)
Air 9 - Shock resistance (75%) & Air Shield (70%)
Air 10 - Shock resistance (75%) & Air Shield (80%)

In dom4:
A4 = + 2 Precision
A6 = +3 Precision
A8 = +4 Precision
A9 = +4 Precision and Air shield (80)
A10 = +5 Precision and Air shield (80)

And all spell that give Air Shield (both dom3/dom4) give an Air Shield 80, so the sub-partial Air Shield no longer exist.

If I remember right one of the thrones gives an air shield that is much lower than 80%

Edited by: Kris_Lighthawk

Ohlmann wrote:

KingVandal wrote: I'm pretty sure that fire arrow is aoe, so how can it really miss? Sure you miss with the arrow but it's the fire that does the most damage with it.

First time I heard of that. IIRC it's single target.

It is single target. AoE fire arrow would just be.... beautiful....

ZephyrDoo wrote:
It is single target. AoE fire arrow would just be.... beautiful....

Or maybe overpowered lol

If you really watch the battle its not really the arrows doing most of the damage - its the fireballs, poison clouds, fire clouds, and falling fires. He brought 10 mages to the battle with some pretty decent evoc researched. You had 3 and a thugged out pretender. Flaming arrows helped but it wasn't the full story. He just flat out brought more gold and combat power to the battle.

Edited by: Torgoni

Torgoni wrote: If you really watch the battle.

Pretty sure Gaslov really did watch the battle. You may have missed reading that Gaslov counted the hits from one volley.

Just crushed the ea machaka with ea vanheim recently - earthquake was the key. It counters Flaming arrows not the air shield.

Btw don't forget that each hit counts twice & shields now don't deflect missiles - they counts as shield hits.

So 220 archers caused 65 hits. It isn't a 80% protection but it definitely works somehow.

Koradji wrote:

Torgoni wrote: If you really watch the battle.

Pretty sure Gaslov really did watch the battle. You may have missed reading that Gaslov counted the hits from one volley.

did not bothered to count the hits but arrow fend seemed to work very well in the battle against the flaming arrows. I agree with Torgoni.

Silvo wrote:

Koradji wrote:

Torgoni wrote: If you really watch the battle.

Pretty sure Gaslov really did watch the battle. You may have missed reading that Gaslov counted the hits from one volley.

did not bothered to count the hits but arrow fend seemed to work very well in the battle against the flaming arrows. I agree with Torgoni.

I dont understand this comment. Based on doing no credible effort, you agree with someone else who didnt make any effort, and you felt the need to tell us that.... I am going to go out on a limb and say that I completely disagree. I made even less of an effot (I didnt watch the video at all) but still throw my 2 cents in and say that not only wasnt air fend effective, but actually increased the number of hits more then regularly.

I didn't notice much difference between the battles when he didn't have arrow fend and this battle. It was close battle so if my flaming arrows
didn't work he would probably have won.

Anyway i think arrow fend should counter flaming arrows. It just makes sense.

Does anyone have experience with using arrow fend vs flaming arrows in dom3?

Tested with a single FA'd archer against naked units with arrow fend. When it hits it always does damage. But only 1 damage roll per hit, so the normal arrow effect is blocked by the air shield but the 8AP fire damage is unaffected.

DegenerateArt wrote: Tested with a single FA'd archer against naked units with arrow fend. When it hits it always does damage. But only 1 damage roll per hit, so the normal arrow effect is blocked by the air shield but the 8AP fire damage is unaffected.

That seems like a clear bug to me. Considering that the idea is that the arrows must make contact to inflict fire damage...