Remove 'Relinquish Province' requirement! [Disciple games] Thread - Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension

Why is it easier for enemies to take a province resisting their control than it is for allies to take a province welcoming their control? The 'Relinquish Province' command to give your province to an ally in a team disciples game is unnecessary, unrealistic and unhelpful.

I captured some provinces from an enemy that border my ally. If these provinces bordered a second enemy instead of my ally, I could hand the provinces over much faster to my enemy than to my ally (this doesn't make sense) by leaving them undefended and letting him move in with any commander. My ally, however, has no way of taking these provinces that I would like to give him unless:

1. I recruit a commander behind enemy lines
2. I have that useless commander then waste a turn 'Relinquishing Province'
3. My ally has an unused commander in the area

In contrast, an 'enemy' can take a province that I would like to give him by:

1. My enemy has an unused commander in the area

Edit: My proposed solution is to have an 'Acquire Province' command available to allies that are in your provinces. This could be executed on the run like 'Move and Patrol'. If your permanent ally is taking your provinces against your will, you have bigger problems than preventing that action! Given AI allies, the 'Relinquish Province' command could still exist so that you can prompt the AI as to which provinces should be taken.

Edited by: warclone@gmail.com

Interesting proposal. If Illwinter did this I wouldn't mind at all.

I would certainly a system to do this!

An option using your commanders would be that the "Relinquish Province" dialog simply calls up a menu of allies to select.

Another method could be using a globally targeted spell.

The only problem is that it would make easier to grant a disciple a province behind your lines so they can call themselves back, rather than be wiped out.

Wraithstalke wrote: The only problem is that it would make easier to grant a disciple a province behind your lines so they can call themselves back, rather than be wiped out.

Can't you do this anyway with the current setup? They just need a scout there.

It is thematic though. No one gets left behind!

You can if they get any commander there, although there might be a restriction on non-hiding commanders.

I'm saying making it easier to rescue them from defeat is not necessarily a good thing. More easily making your nations contiguous is a good thing.

Going to ignore the fact that the poll is very heavily biased in the wording. Overall I think the choice to require an allied commander to be there is a way to require players to use some forethought and planning. I'm all for game mechanics that push for this. Its something your enemy team can counter potentially with assassins and various tactics and adds more strategic richness to the game so I like it as is personally.

i dont know enough about how the team games work to give much more than an opinion that the game should be more focused on fighting and taking away provinces from the enemy and not focused on how to manipulate control of your own provinces in order to gain an advantage.

Resok wrote: Going to ignore the fact that the poll is very heavily biased in the wording. Overall I think the choice to require an allied commander to be there is a way to require players to use some forethought and planning. I'm all for game mechanics that push for this. Its something your enemy team can counter potentially with assassins and various tactics and adds more strategic richness to the game so I like it as is personally.

How about an allied commander who can be the target of a special spell-like message!

Like how you can send gems or items, maybe they can make a "Give Province" message which casts the relinquish province effect at an allied commander.

(Although I'll say that the allied commander requirement perhaps makes it very difficult to work with AI allies.)

Edited by: gretelmay98

To relinquish a province usually require a prolonged negotiation, argument about transaction term and compensation......It would be much easier just kill whoever disapprove your occupation:dead:

Yeah sort of.

Of course, the ruler of one nation is the disciple of the god of the other, so its less likely to be a haggling more a sort of:

"Zephrus, who First Heard Mortanis, this is Mortanis, give me The Bottleneck"

I actually think it should be possible to give provinces to ENEMIES too, as a diplomatic option. "Here, have a free province. It's a wasteland with 900 population. Right between Hinnom and Niefelheim. Good luck collecting any income on it even if you do build a fort." Or conversely, "I'm winning this game and it's too easy. Have 30 provinces and let's have a mulligan."

Both of these things are fun to do in MOO2.

wilsonmax wrote: I actually think it should be possible to give provinces to ENEMIES too, as a diplomatic option. "Here, have a free province. It's a wasteland with 900 population. Right between Hinnom and Niefelheim. Good luck collecting any income on it even if you do build a fort." Or conversely, "I'm winning this game and it's too easy. Have 30 provinces and let's have a mulligan."

Both of these things are fun to do in MOO2.

Well, why should we be given [more] options to abuse the AI ??

knightofni wrote: Well, why should we be given [more] options to abuse the AI ??

Speaking of, what happens if you gift the AI banevenom charms?

Cant the Relinquish Province command just cause the province to become independent with no guards? Use the logic for determining where soldier retreat to determine where the relinquishing commander (and any troops present) end up located.

It still technically requires the same steps, (both sides need a commander) but it takes out the need for having to co-ordinate and make sure there is commanders of both parties present at the same time.

commiesalami wrote: Cant the Relinquish Province command just cause the province to become independent with no guards? Use the logic for determining where soldier retreat to determine where the relinquishing commander (and any troops present) end up located.

It still technically requires the same steps, (both sides need a commander) but it takes out the need for having to co-ordinate and make sure there is commanders of both parties present at the same time.

In that case you might as well use the BFF mod, which sends an independent to mindcontrol the whole army and then a follow-up independent in the same turn to mind-control it back to the new player. In the process you lose all PD.

Edited by: wilsonmax

Resok wrote: Going to ignore the fact that the poll is very heavily biased in the wording. Overall I think the choice to require an allied commander to be there is a way to require players to use some forethought and planning. I'm all for game mechanics that push for this. Its something your enemy team can counter potentially with assassins and various tactics and adds more strategic richness to the game so I like it as is personally.

I wouldn't call the poll wording biased, because that's exactly the way it is now: It's much easier to give a province to an enemy than an ally. However, I do believe there are enough good reasons to support 'Easy Ally Province Acquirement' as an option instead of mandatory.

Edit:

knightofni wrote: Well, why should we be given [more] options to abuse the AI ??

Perhaps relinquishing provinces to AI enemies as wilsonmax suggests is taking the idea a little too far, since I could imagine it throwing them off in some cases (like trying to defend a hopeless gift province).
The original suggestion wouldn't give more options to abuse the AI, since the 'Relinquish Province' command would still exist for AI allies. I'm addressing player allies, with whom it is much more difficult to exchange provinces than player enemies.

Edited by: warclone@gmail.com

I have answered "yes" because the formulation take me for a retard. It's so heavily biased you could use it as a textbook example of psychological manipulation, regardless of what your "justification" for it is.

I think that relinquish should be possible - if the province is matching an ally province - with a single commander. Neighbouring should be enough to give control.

We are talking of giving control of the province, and the units that can be recruited there. And with the landtype recruitables...

I don't feel like that should be possible, for a province not close to ally empire, to give control without at least an ally commander.

None of my opinions can be reflected in the poll, or that I think after reading twice, that they can be reflected in any answer. That's why I don't vote, sorry.

Edit: I explained myself badly, like the poll.
C) relinquish should be possible - if the province is matching an ally province - with a single commander
And you have my vote

Edited by: Solosol

I don't see why it should be harder, therefore I should cast a vote in favour of your demand?

Don't worry, it's done