Demilich Replacement Mod Thread - Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension

I had the sprite base done so I quickly whipped this up.

The demilich pretender is problematic in vanilla due to several reasons:

1) It is an immobile rainbow, which is a tough combination. People take rainbows to diversify their magic but immobile rainbow cannot site search to make use of that diversity. This replacement sort of amends that by giving the replacement some innate gem income.

2) Some people had problems with the theme of the Demilich since he admittedly does not look that.. grand. Why cannot someone just pick him up to solve the immobility and questions like that. Some people might think that the replacement in this mod solves those questions.

This mod replaces the Demilich pretender with a "Thronebound Lich" who is still immobile but has some innate gem income (+1 all elemental + death gems per month) to offset the gems you are losing due to your inability to search magical sites.

I don't intend to expand this any further. If someone wants to roll this into a bigger pretender mod or do something with this mod, go on ahead

Download the mod HERE

Edited by: Burnsaber

Wow, that's VERY badass, congratulations. Although the elemental gems and ritual bonus, in addition to being very powerful, seem a bit..out of place? I do understand he is meant to be a rainbow but I'd expect him to lean more towards death magic rather than elemental.

Elemental paths aren't out of character of a caster-centric lich. At first it was supposed to be 7 gems (one per element) on the idea that if your rainbow cannot manually search he need gem to remote search or do something of his path, but it was a bit too many with alchemy. The elemental thematic then work well ; better than giving him nature gem :p

I can see how a lich would be 'generically'skilled at elemental magic, though it seems a bit odd he wouldn't get a death gem too(but it might be too much). Still, don't want to derail the thread. Congrats again to Burnsaber, I definetely like this.

David88 wrote: I can see how a lich would be 'generically'skilled at elemental magic, though it seems a bit odd he wouldn't get a death gem too(but it might be too much). Still, don't want to derail the thread. Congrats again to Burnsaber, I definetely like this.

You are not derailing the thread. You said legitimate feedback on the theme of the pretender. Theme is a pretty big part why this game is good, so concerns on that regard should be voiced. Death gem income would be good both thematically and mechanically. That way nations that do not have death naturally might pick the lich to bootstrap into that.

I originally had it as +1 income in all gems, but it was pointed out that it would be kind of OP (4 astral petals per turn essentially). It was then suggested to cut it down to half. So either elemental or sorcery to be simple. Sorcery has blood slaves mucking things up.

It is kind of interesting problem.

Given there is water, fire, and earth undead caster easily summoneable, but not air undead caster, you could make it 1F1W1E1D - replacing the air gem by death gem.

You mention that a death gem income would be fitting, so what about just giving +2 death gems/turn? Also works well for bootstrapping into Death, as you say.

I do like the idea of a pretender giving 1 of each elemental gem but as I said it feels a bit odd, perhaps you(or someone else, I was working on a pretender mod after all) could eventually use it for a related concept.

Edited by: TheZonk

David88 wrote: You mention that a death gem income would be fitting, so what about just giving +2 death gems/turn? Also works well for bootstrapping into Death, as you say.

Ohlmann wrote: At first it was supposed to be 7 gems (one per element) on the idea that if your rainbow cannot manually search he need gem to remote search or do something of his path

If you just give death, he is not an immobile rainbow in any matter.

Yeah the whole point of the gem income is to sort of off-set the gem income you are by not getting by site searching as with usual rainbow pretenders.

People take rainbows so that they can effectively site search giving you gem income which then use with the rainbow to cast rituals. Immobile unit cannot fulfill this equation. You can give your demilich all elemental paths but that magic does nothing unless you have income in those paths. This is the reason why I have not heard anyone taking him as a pretender.

Ohlmanns suggestion about scrapping air could work but I,d lose the simplicity. (hey wait, what was the element that this dude did not give?) I'd rather give him death gem in addition to the current line-up of elemental gems. Elemental + death is easier equation than elemental - air + death

I wanted to suggest elemental + death myself after Ohlmann's post, yeah. That'd be good and still simple.

I updated the mod based on suggestions herein, new version is version 1.1, download link in the OP

- The Thronebound Lich now produces one death gem in addition to the elemental gems
- Removed the ritual range boost
- Updated the description and fixed a typo

"Why cannot someone just pick him up" Love it! creative answer on gem generation too!

I like the changes a lot and the sprite is very impressive. I made my own mod to give him a longdead buddy to just pick him up. I think yours is better balanced and would rather see this in a pretender overhaul, but I couldn't resist.

I suggest calling him the Thronebound Lich of infinite mass with a limited gravitic field. Just in case some smartass comes along and tries to poke holes in your mod

No need to bring up mass and gravity, just add some flavour on how the lich is bound to the Throne and the throne is MAGICALLY bound to the Earth(fitting, as it also gives one earth gem!).
Thus no one could lift the throne by mere strength, but it could be moved by powerful magic,such as the various teleport spells

Edit: also, sorry if this is derailing, and I know we already have a lot of liches BUT I'm really tempted to make a 'floating skull' lich that is mobile(map move 1 or even 2), floating and still immortal, but no slots except head and 2 misc and slightly worse physical stats. It could get a bite (mostly for fun) attack

Edited by: TheZonk

David88 wrote: BUT I'm really tempted to make a 'floating skull' lich that is mobile(map move 1 or even 2), floating and still immortal, but no slots except head and 2 misc and slightly worse physical stats. It could get a bite (mostly for fun) attack

Why would the lich shed its body if it's still for using it ?

I suspect people don't really understand what is a demilich.

Ah, this wouldn't be a Demi lich(the 'demi' does imply ony the spirit lives on), but a skull-lich. Bit annoying having so many liches perhaps but I liked the concept enough to try it:

Most stats - including base and magic cost - are halfway between the regular Master and Demilich. I wonder if this would actually be balanced, mapmove 2 + floating should let it get around and ignore rivers too, although pathcost 30 is somewhat high for a 'real' rainbow...

Edit: one problem with the concept is that you can't make a 'head only' monster, so it will still get body hits, chest wounds... Might try to get around this by giving a high prot 'lack of a body'armor, which would mean a lot of blows that connect would be negated, while the best think would simply be having them hit the head)

Edited by: TheZonk

Ohlmann wrote:

David88 wrote: BUT I'm really tempted to make a 'floating skull' lich that is mobile(map move 1 or even 2), floating and still immortal, but no slots except head and 2 misc and slightly worse physical stats. It could get a bite (mostly for fun) attack

Why would the lich shed its body if it's still for using it ?

I suspect people don't really understand what is a demilich.

Dnd demilichs can float around a bit anyway, they're not totally immobile:

The magics preserving the lich's body against the ravages of time weaken, usually causing the body to gradually deteriorate until only a skull or even a single skeletal hand remains; this advanced form of lich is known as a demilich. Despite its ruined body, a demilich is far from powerless; if disturbed, the skull will levitate and suck the souls from nearby living creatures.

Admiral_Aorta wrote:

The magics preserving the lich's body against the ravages of time weaken, usually causing the body to gradually deteriorate until only a skull or even a single skeletal hand remains; this advanced form of lich is known as a demilich. Despite its ruined body, a demilich is far from powerless; if disturbed, the skull will levitate and suck the souls from nearby living creatures.

#onebattlespell "Soul vortex" !

Edited by: TheZonk

Admiral_Aorta wrote:
Dnd demilichs can float around a bit anyway, they're not totally immobile:

The magics preserving the lich's body against the ravages of time weaken, usually causing the body to gradually deteriorate until only a skull or even a single skeletal hand remains; this advanced form of lich is known as a demilich. Despite its ruined body, a demilich is far from powerless; if disturbed, the skull will levitate and suck the souls from nearby living creatures.

and as you quote, they use that to self defence but stay in place because they are basically evil magic geeks.