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3D Modelling and Design

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ Battlezone Total Command

If you do decide on aircraft, please consider something closer to the old concept art, those unused N64 models are just... just not good templates.

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ Battlezone Total Command

Ahhh, I getcha, okay, looking forward to trying it out.

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ Battlezone Total Command

Small question, I'm just a bit curious and didn't see you mentioning it anywhere...

What's the story behind the name "Total Command"? It feels like the name you'd expect a purely RTS version of BZ to have, you remove the FPS element and it becomes "total command".

The Comm Towers look nice, the NSDF and BDog ones seem to leave the user highly exposed, though, compared to the other three.

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ Battlezone Total Command

With the head I was mostly emulating the shape of the Yeti's front end, though people have told me they prefer it rounded. By all means, make whatever alterations to this design you like, I may end up finishing it at some point for BZ Redux but that won't be for a while. Not sure how I feel about separating the foot from the legs, would really depend on how it was animated.

Random idea, take it or leave it, but the BZ1 walkers always had fairly quick rotation speeds, which in my opinion was always part of their balance, but it really just looks weird for them to spin around like they do. Not sure what you could do about it for the Sasquatch but the Golem's feet seem perfect to have tank treads built into them. If you kept the quick rotation speed of the walkers, it might be an idea to make it look nicer.

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ Battlezone Total Command

Never ended up texturing it but here's what I designed for the CRA walker:

Dropbox.com
Dropbox.com

Another point of worry with the Sasquatch is that its POV isn't in the head but between the legs, as if it were actually in the head it'd be rather difficult to aim its weapons. Depending on how true to the original you want to keep things I would consider trying some designs that shortened the body somewhat.

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ Battlezone Total Command

Curious if you'll be changing the size of the Golem and Sasquatch much? They're size difference is, well, shall we say "immense" and I'm personally not sure the best way to go about it.

Along the same vein, will the CRA walker be staying an exact replica of the Golem? I have a few concepts lying around for a walker based on the Golem but with more of a CRA spin on it, would be happy to share them.

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ scale 6

I don't think it's the legs that are too long, it's the torso/abdomen that looks elongated.

BZ1 lacked any sort of scaling features and attempts to simply rescale models without creating a separate model often results in improper polygon culling or crashing. Not super fun.

I don't see how more angular canopies would be larger? I understand not wanting them to be any bigger but can't really picture why there'd be a noticeable size increase.

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ scale 6

Don't see why the pilot couldn't be laying on his stomach to pilot the vehicle, the lower POV position was sleeker and more unique.

EDIT: Also bringing this up because it'll probably affect the CCA Minelayer quite heavily, it would take extremely drastic (quite possibly design-ruining) changes to make the pilot sit upright in the vehilce. While the CCA space suit isn't really designed with it in mind, having the pilot lay on his/her stomach to control the vehicle is just about the only way it'd work.

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ scale 6

That's not the position of the POV on the original model, the pilot is up behind the rocket pods.

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ Battlezone Total Command

Rockets and Missiles both fall under the blanket term "Rockets" in the game, but real-world tanks that use such weapons are called Missile Tanks, so really either is acceptable, Missile Tanks is probably more correct while Rocket Tanks is more familiar for players. *shrug*

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ battlezone TC yvarmo3

Really not digging the feet here, makes it look almost dog-like, like some sort of malformed pug. Is it too late to try maybe a singular piece under the Armoury? Like a large semi-rectangular siphon that goes over the geyser and which the Armoury stands on, would help the flow of the design, I feel, the feet just seem too out of place.

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ battlezone TC avfact01

It's a bit unclear what this is, is this a mobile form of the Fury Factory or a separate building?

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ battlezone TC yvturr

I get that you want to increase the external size of the cockpits on vehicles but the original design for the Adder is far more menacing, it's lost some of its charm.

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ battlezone TC kvturrmmars

Love that all three guns fire, though I feel like they drill a bit too far down, the height reduction is a bit detrimental.

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ Battlezone Total Command

Yes, I can see that, it looks ridiculous.

:B

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ Battlezone Total Command

Not so much the concept of the constructor that I dislike, primarily the shape of the thing and the orange eyes on its underbelly. Were I you, I'd make any sort of eyes small beady clusters on top of the body and give it a large set of pedipalps with which to build structures, perhaps in addition to making the tail curl up over the body and "spray" the Biometal.

Just an idea, what you do is, of course, up to you.

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ Battlezone Total Command

A major improvement, you were right that the in-game renderings would look better as well, everything's much less flat.

Only thing I still dislike is the designs of some of the Fury units... mostly just the constructor. But yes, I like this, I would play this, call me what you will but I'm glad you're considering what I said.

"Some might say, “Battlezone is supposed to be…” I say, “Suppose it were different.”"
Not gonna lie, this probably sounded cooler in your head than it actually is.
I mean, it's true
Just sayin'

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ Battlezone Total Command

I lack the patience for this. You go ahead and waste your time with this little pet project of yours, you have the right, never said you didn't. As I said, you might actually learn something and grow as a person and as an artist if you actually bothered to collaborate with others but if you have no desire to do so then that's your decision. Frankly, if you didn't want critique of your work I barely understand why you've posted this up online at all. Sorry that not everyone who's happened upon this mod was looking to stroke your ego.

"My summary of Deus Ex Ceteri to me..." Are you kidding me with this, you're critiquing me as a person when all I've done is critique your work a bit more harshly than you'd have liked? I'm here trying to get across what's wrong with your work and encourage you to actually collaborate with other modders, not even me just ANYONE and you're making fun of me... How does a person react to this. It's one thing to just misunderstand someone but you're now putting words in my mouth to make a point that you dislike me as a person based solely on my opinion of one mod you made.

Bashing and name-calling??? I called you "dipstick" please tell me that didn't actually hurt. That was not meant to hurt, that was so tame.

Congrats on that Bachelor of Fine Art's degree, quite cool that you've worked as a paid artist. Congrats on those few thousand design projects that you mention further down as well. Don't really have anything snarky to say about that, again, I admire your work.

You admitted yourself that you didn't have many ideas for what to do with the extractors, which I will keep bringing up because just like the extractors it honestly looks like you lacked ideas on a lot of things so I really don't know how you can say you had a "vision" for this BZ2 mod. I don't see it.

I'm not saying you need another 3D artist I'm saying you need someone with better concept and design skills. Heck, if that's too much you'd be welcome in HB, you could throw designs at us you're unsure about or want critique on when they are in their early stages and we'd tell you ways we'd think they could be improved. We wouldn't even be working with you we'd just be there for critique and support, and we WOULD be supportive of this project. HD models of BZ1's units and whatnot for BZ2 is a great idea and a lot of what you've done is fine there's just some stuff that is ill-fitting and ugly. That's not your fault, every artist has their lackluster work, if it weren't for the support and the ideas of the modding community my own mod project would honestly be *** because I was in my own little echo-chamber where no bad idea ever saw rejection. Coxxon, how many more times must I say this, I like what you've done in the past but I don't like this, it just needs more work and it needs to be open to critique. Get someone, ANYONE, working with you, you need a second set of eyes contributing to this project if it's going to go anywhere.

Dismissive and offensive for something I'm not paying for? That isn't even what this is about, Coxxon, this is just disappointment. You're a talented artist who's done great work in the past but this mod, as it currently is, just seems so much more amateur? It's made me doubt you where before I was a fan and an advocate.

"I have not only the right, but the responsibility to decide what the final product is, regardless of what anyone else wants." As a fellow artist, one who has worked professionally, I had hoped you'd understand that in order to grow and improve you need to be willing to accept the aid and critique of others.

If you want to continue working on this alone, fine by me. I see no further reason to debate this in a ModDB comment section, if you still feel the need to talk, PM me and we can get in touch over skype or steam or something.

The offer to become a part of HB, or heck even just poke your head in the group and see what we're about, still stands. I mean it, I sincerely do, the whole purpose of the group is for modders from the Battlezone communities to come together and collaborate ideas in a supportive environment.

If not, then, I guess we're done here. I won't be commenting further.

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ Battlezone Total Command

You might note that comment was made the same day I made an account.

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ Battlezone Total Command

I'm sorry? I thought I was being quite clear, you need to reduce the greeble, you need to make the designs sleeker and you need to scrap the repair units, furies, and extractors. I even offered you a suggestion for how the extractors should look, it's clear YOU are the one not reading what I said, simply assuming I'm a BZ1-purist who hates anything that isn't perfectly identical to BZ1, which is not the case. BZR is honestly quite disappointing in how little it changes.

Okay, so legally we don't own the games, so what? They belong to their communities, dipstick.

Your mod is in direct competition with BZC whether you want it to be or not, which means you're going to put a lot more effort into it than is necessary because you're too stubborn to consider cooperation with someone else. I'm not saying there can only be one of something, I'm saying you're wasting your time.

And you are wasting your time, you could be updating the FE models or the Uler mod models or creating some other new custom faction and instead you've chosen to recreate BZ1, all while changing everything to fit your own "vision", which I'm sorry to say seems short-sighted. Your work appears directionless and chaotic and your attitude makes it hard to find good things to say about what you've done so far.

Did you miss the part where I said I was a fan of your other work? That I endorsed your other work because I thought it was high quality and would lead to something even better? Did you miss the part where I praised how much time and effort you've put into this and how it's clear you can create high-quality models, you just need some design help because what you come up with yourself is out of place? How about you quit fighting the idea that you would grow as a person and as an artist if you collaborated with others and actually listen to critique instead of brushing it aside.

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ Battlezone Total Command

1) I'll just use your own Grizzly comparisson to make my counterpoint here, because your version of the model is quite simply horrendous. The level of detail is not the issue, the amount of detail is. Your model is so greebled and overloaded with unnecessary additions that it simply doesn't look like an improvement. Why are there now 5 weapon barrels? Why are there random plates welded/bolted onto the face of the vehicle? Why are there so many goddamned decals? Why does every square inch of your design need something filling it, it creates very poor detail contrast. I don't care that you don't think BZ1 or BZR is realistic or not, this isn't about that, your additions to these designs have taken them further away from realism than they already were, your designs simply need work, Coxxon. They aren't good.

2) Your Frog design is laughably bad, as is the Comrade and the Ammo Bot. The Ammo Bot was scrapped from the game and here you have brought it back in all it's non-glory. These designs just stick out like sore goddamn thumbs. The Grizzly has a painted-on mouth and eyes so you think the Frog can have physical components that resemble a mouth and eyes? It isn't comical, Coxxon, it is distracting for how ridiculously ill-fitting it looks.
The solution with the extractors is obvious, they should look like partially-completed silos with the scavenger connected to them, acting as a pump/siphon/whatever for the scrap to the silo. The CCA one is particularly bad. It uses a bucket? Really?
The 2 Fury designs in the final game resemble flying saucers, so it'd make sense to base the other Furies on flying saucers, but that's not the heart of the issue. The only Fury design I like is the Tug, even your SAV is ugly and it's primarily the texture, the textures are simply awful and lack many of their original elements, they look far too rough. The eyes is definitely an issue, though, because unless you can make the pupils move, they now look painted on and fake. They don't look more human, they look plastic, and if you view the Furies as more human than animal then you should be using ancient Greek mythos as your base for their designs since they are quite literally the tortured minds of Greek warriors in inescapable Bio-Metal prisons.

3) The Red Wolves don't really belong to any single modder, they sorta belong to the community. While the modder Ssuser originally created them, he's always been willing to let people create their own versions of them. Though if you feel you need to ask first, he shouldn't be too hard to track down.

4) Ummm, first off yes BZ1 does indeed belong to the BZ1 community just like BZ2 belongs to the BZ2 community, I'm having trouble seeing your point of view here. Were a BZ2 port into BZ1 ever done I would hope that the modders in charge of it get the assistance of the BZ2 modding community rather than blindly throwing something together. The fact you limit your interaction with other modders is only stifling you, you are not the be-all end-all and your designs lack clear direction. You need help, that is not opinion that is fact. I'm sorry that you seem to think that anyone who would have something negative to say about your creation has an attitude problem, that's honestly a bit childish.

5) You got me there, this is your mod and whatever. But the fact you're doing it on your own and in clear opposition of Battlezone Classic rather than in coordination with it does say something about where you stand in the community. Your argument that I need to produce something better is in itself also flawed, you're suggesting I waste my time competing with you because you will only ever refuse to work with me or anyone else? The heck is wrong with you? No bias needs to be examined, your making a bad mod that could be better if you'd actually work with people with design experience.

BZ2 players currently, as we speak, have a version of BZ1 to play with, it's called Battlezone Classic and despite lacking the best quality models it will remain the only BZ1 mod for BZ2 worth playing.

Enjoy your hobby, Coxxon. I had contacted Mike Arkin suggesting he consider hiring you if they ever do a BZ2 Redux, as I thought your BZ2 HD mod was nice, if a bit unpolished. I'll be informing him not to bother.

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DeusExCeteri
DeusExCeteri @ Battlezone Total Command

Okay, I want to comment on this now because it's still in the early stages and there's a lot I see wrong with it.

First, I have to say that, looking at these designs, you seem to be afraid of negative space, Coxxon. These models are so cluttered with pointless little additions that my eyes have trouble focusing on any one part. Practical real-world vehicles aren't like this, and for good reason, it ruins a design to overload it with detail, it does not enhance.

Second, the designs you've come up with yourself are, well, I'm sorry but they are bad. The Frog is bad, the Extractors are bad, the new Furies are bad (especially the irises, they make the eyes look painted on, the original Furies had eyes that were solid black like an animal's eyes). You clearly need an experienced designer working with you, you have talent but these are awful.

Third, I have to say I dislike the Crimson Bears since they're basically the Red Wolves. I see nothing about them that makes them stand apart, even their logo resembles the Rwolf logo from a distance. The Red Wolves have pretty well been cemented as the antithesis of the Black Dogs, your Bears will not replace them.

Coxxon, you have so much talent, you honestly do, the amount of detail is praiseworthy, its just too condensed. I'm hoping that you re-evaluate these current designs and also reach out to others in the modding community for help, especially the BZ1 modding community as this is their game merely in your game's engine. I'm hopeful this mod goes places, but for it to do so it's clear you need the help of concept artists because this will not be a polished product if you continue it as-is.

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