What to do with the Arcade mode? Thread - Vector Thrust

This is something that was bothering me for a while, what should I do with the arcade mode?

As it stands now, this mode is an artifact of the original design. The problem is that the challenge mode as matured in a way overlaps what I was planning to with the arcade mode and now it makes me feel that is redundant to have yet another more that doesn’t differ that much from the rest.

There is another point that concerns me, it was mentioned in another thread, that I didn’t give a proper reply. But from what I read, the game can be hard for newcomers, all the modes available can be confusing and some of them are not exactly helpful for anyone that intends to play for the first time. This makes me fear that this mode may not help in this regard.

The easiest solution is to remove it, but I don’t feel right about it. I can’t deny that sometimes there are unfulfilled promises in the development, but I want to avoid that as much as possible. But at the same time I don’t think is smart adding something that may be a detriment to the overall experience.

So I what ask you all what you think about this. What should I do?

Repurpose it as a tutorial mode, keep it in storage, or just outright remove it. That's my opinion about it.

Edited by: flyawaynow

A tutorial sounds good. Using aspects of the UI from the Challenges screen, it could be a series of single missions like Battle Scenario where the missions are clearly listed on the screen.

I think a layout like this would be easy to read with little user input on the UI, e.g.: no use of drop-down lists.

Edited by: SpootKnight

I don't really get how arcade mode would be different from a campaign, aside from having a high score table at the end.

The idea isn't to produce a carbon copy of the Challenge UI, but to borrow its use of lists to give a screen where everything is displayed on the table. The three windows alone would provide all the information needed to understand what a tutorial mission offers.

Also, rather than be a campaign, they should be made like missions from Battle Scenario, as mentioned above, since they can be done in any order, any number of times, without having to reset the total progress like a campaign requires just to replay specific missions.

Edited by: SpootKnight

flyawaynow wrote: Repurpose it as a tutorial mode.

This. You can always split it to Flight Training (basic plane controls, maneuvers, AoA), Weapons Training (per weapon type training, alpha strike), Advanced training (more complicated stuff like squad command, ECM, advanced tactics).

Edited by: Nergal01

Turning it into a tutorial mode would also be a great way showcase different enemy threats and aircraft properties. What would be interesting is to use the visual novel style cutscenes to explain things like the purpose of challenge mode and how to dodge advanced SAMs. I see way too many people posting on the Steam forums about some mechanic that they think is missing from the game, because there's no easy way for people to learn about the features present.

I got some tutorial ideas:
-Post stall maneuvers (and how to use the brake to pivot quicker) Player flies SU-47
-Countermeasures and how to make sure the missile doesn't hit you anyway. Player flies an F-14
-Head-ons: How to avoid them and when they actually work. Player flies a MiG-23 and is pitted against several planes with different lock on ranges.
-ECM: player flies an EA-18G, tries out its jammers, and then fightsenemy formations to see what it's like to engage enemy jammers.
-Boresight: player flies a MiG-21PF with target selecting disabled (he can only target with boresight) and must shoot down some drones.
-Alpha strike: Player is armed with XLAAs and unlimited ammo.
-Wingman commands: player has no ammo and must order his wingmen to destroy several easy targets
-Stealth: player takes an F-117A on a bombing mission, and must evade enemy fighter patrols.
-Napalm bowling: How to line up your shots to torch row of vehicles. Player flies a Sepecat Jaguar
-Target sorting algorithms: how they work and how to find the best one for you.

Each training missions preferably should be as less boring, short & clear as possible (i.e no need to have the player to wipe the map clean out of TGTs if there are many).

Yes a tutorial seems the best idea.

@bornloser, in that list I want to also add:
-Mutators
-Jamming Effects
-Stats changing units (like the Su-30, it needs to be added a few more)
-Multi lock & different behaviors
-Stress damage
-Rocket weapons
-Gun sight and using the lead pointer
-Directional damage
-SAM evasion

Since mutators are user-defined, I'm not sure if including it into a tutorial is necessary. Unless, it's a "mission" that runs one of the cutscene formats, like a VN sequence (assuming it could display other screens) that explains how they're configured, and marks itself as clear at the end.

That is, if it's possible to have a mission without an actual mission.

That is, if it's possible to have a mission without an actual mission.

Maybe simply having a "spectator camera" set watching AI planes do skirmish with mutators should suffice.

Edited by: Nergal01

I mean, going through a slide show of illustrative images with the VN style cutscenes would go a pretty long way in explaining menu options and other things that aren't generally intuitive.

Why not turn it into a genuine arcade mode?

X number of stages, certain stages are randomly chosen between a list (as in for stage 1 you could play one of three missions), and the player is allowed to select their plane before starting the mode (can't change until a continue), while SP weapon selection is allowed at the start of each mission.

Add in different arcade 'routes' and etc. and it might be a pretty interesting game mode, the goal of each route basically being a short campaign any player could reasonably complete in a game session. It might be an excuse to feature a lot more game-y content that neither fits the context of a challenge nor the campaign.

Edited by: Boogie_Van

Boogie_Van wrote: Why not turn it into a genuine arcade mode?

X number of stages, certain stages are randomly chosen between a list (as in for stage 1 you could play one of three missions), and the player is allowed to select their plane before starting the mode (can't change until a continue), while SP weapon selection is allowed at the start of each mission.

Add in different arcade 'routes' and etc. and it might be a pretty interesting game mode, the goal of each route basically being a short campaign any player could reasonably complete in a game session. It might be an excuse to feature a lot more game-y content that neither fits the context of a challenge nor the campaign.

Maybe it'll be redundant if it can be done as a standard campaign. With Darius/Taito-style branching levels.

Possibly, but I'd expect a different investment of time. Less than a half hour/forty five minutes in arcade and multiple hours in a full campaign.

Boogie_Van wrote: Possibly, but I'd expect a different investment of time. Less than a half hour/forty five minutes in arcade and multiple hours in a full campaign.

Make it like the classic mode in super smash bros. You face off against a series of randomly selected fighter squadrons with the occasional mutator or superweapon thrown in to keep you on your toes. Final boss is either legion or the largest air fortress in the game.

bornloser wrote:
Make it like the classic mode in super smash bros. You face off against a series of randomly selected fighter squadrons with the occasional mutator or superweapon thrown in to keep you on your toes. Final boss is either legion or the largest air fortress in the game.

That can be done using quick action instead IMHO.

I just thought of my "alternative" of arcade mode will involve basically every kind of transport/bombers are armed with turrets and a superweapon (or "enlarged" version of bombers) will be end-stage boss. Cue multiple spell cards danmaku bullet patterns for each layer of subobjects being destroyed.

Just like those old-school shmups.

I think Nergal's idea is dedicated DLC/mod worthy.

We should come up with a way to do this at the very least. It shouldn't be that hard, aside from figuring out how to make guns that shoot patterns and/or shoot in a pattern.

Assume arcade mode will be release in the late stage of development when most of the features are available I'm thinking of kinda survival like mode(more specifically TF2's MvM mode) where you have to fight off waves of fighter squadron occasionally ace/bomber squadron and flying fortresses.

Here's the catch, this kind of arcade mode is best released after take off and landing is added to the game.

The player will start out on a runway/carrier to select a plane and its weapons and equipment(fuel tanks, gunpod, ECM pod etc. once implemented) then take off to to start the wave. The player will earn points for shooting down fighters/kills. After a few waves there will be a short amount of time for the player to land on a nearby airfield or carrier and use the earned points to restock & repair or purchase upgrades, new weapons, new aircraft usable only in that session the the gamemode and maybe even extra lives. The player then can take off to start the next wave.

The gamemode will end once the player is shot down or used up their last live, and the score and time will be recorded and put on a high score board.

It is also a good idea to allow online multiplayer coop for this kind of arcade mode where all the players will share the same lives pool to encourage players to protect and support their teammates.

Edited by: SCN-3_NULL

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Mechanian Peace Sentinel

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SCN-3_NULL wrote: Assume arcade mode will be release in the late stage of development when most of the features are available I'm thinking of kinda survival like mode(more specifically TF2's MvM mode) where you have to fight off waves of fighter squadron occasionally ace/bomber squadron and flying fortresses.

Here's the catch, this kind of arcade mode is best released after take off and landing is added to the game.

The player will start out on a runway/carrier to select a plane and its weapons and equipment(fuel tanks, gunpod, ECM pod etc. once implemented) then take off to to start the wave. The player will earn points for shooting down fighters/kills. After a few waves there will be a short amount of time for the player to land on a nearby airfield or carrier and use the earned points to restock & repair or purchase upgrades, new weapons, new aircraft usable only in that session the the gamemode and maybe even extra lives. The player then can take off to start the next wave.

The gamemode will end once the player is shot down or used up their last live, and the score and time will be recorded and put on a high score board.

It is also a good idea to allow online multiplayer coop for this kind of arcade mode where all the players will share the same lives pool to encourage players to protect and support their teammates.

I think horde mode still considered a regular mission/coop mission, heck it even can be easily made using the editor atm.

We need something more...."special" to make it a separate mode, hence training mode as the replacement for the initial plan.

Edited by: Nergal01

Nergal01 wrote:

I think horde mode still considered a regular mission/coop mission, heck it even can be easily made using the editor atm.

We need something more...."special" to make it a separate mode, hence training mode as the replacement for the initial plan.

Well we could have horde mode as the arcade gamemode, but what I'm suggesting is that it should be endless that means there's no way to end the gamemode unless you quit or got shot down(lose all your lives/available aircraft) and randomized map and sequence/frequency of ace squadron/flying fortress and maybe even enemy aircraft(limited to certain year models), enemy aircraft spawn location, some random generation atleast so that no two game is the same.

You and the enemy also come in tiered aircraft, starting out with MiG-21 and F-104/F-4 and progressively move up.

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Mechanian Peace Sentinel

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