Linux client suggestion Thread

Instead of using already out-of-date notification are icon you can use an app-indicator. App indicators are consistent and they are desktop environment agnostic.
Spec: Notmart.org
Ubuntu Implementation: Wiki.ubuntu.com

EDIT: Sorry for the uninformative thread title.
I actually have another suggestion which is a little bit stretch but all in all makes sense.

Why not make the Desura client open source? As far as I understand most of the Desura client is just a web enabled software that makes HTTP requests to your server side software (like buying games, managing profiles etc.) If this is the case I don't think you would lose anything by opening the source.

Edited by: ultraviolent

Aside from not keeping the tech not open source your mean.

What tech? It's basically a web browser that uses someone else's tech (Webkit and other open source projects). All the important stuff is in the server side - of which I'm not asking to release the source- Dropbox applies the same method. The client is open source but the server is not.

EDIT: God damnit I'm about to piss a Desura team member off

Edited by: ultraviolent

ultraviolent wrote: What tech? It's basically a web browser that uses someone else's tech (Webkit and other open source projects). All the important stuff is in the server side - of which I'm not asking to release the source- Dropbox applies the same method. The client is open source but the server is not.

EDIT: God damnit I'm about to piss a Desura team member off

The application is still something we built ourselves.

Can't be opensource, there is a lot of encryptation, data access (to your games, download games or other) and other stuff. Is not easy

There's a lot of encryption and access to my entire computer via Linux and that's open source A lot of people also entrust Firefox & Chrome (open-source) with their email, banking, game, Desura, etc passwords and OpenOffice with their documents.

So it's not impossible, as long as you get the client from a reputable source (ie. Desura) they could benefit somewhat from community patches/improvements that they decide to integrate. Still, it's a big decision to make and they've got plenty on the plate already I'm sure

@Henley, that's true but how do you benefit from that? Why is it so important to keep a piece of "client" code to your selves -which is an order of magnitude less important then your server stuff-. Think how much it would be fun to get bug fixes, security patches or even new features by complete strangers

@I assumed that the important stuff is on the server side. Data access and encryption are not necessarily things to hide (Although I believe security by obscurity is never a good idea) For example, Paypal have some pretty important information on their database and they allow you to query their database on an encrypted connection by their APIs. You could use those APIs on any open source application but that wouldn't make Paypal less secure would it?

Well, I thought the idea was a stretch but I gave it a shot anyways. I will consider this suggestion as "not gonna happen"

Yeah, you just got to be happy there's a Linux client after all. Let's get this thing to stable and stop moanin about not being open source. If they want to do open-source, they'll do it.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Make an open source alternative with your notifcation system if you want to !

I'm certainly not against projects going open source (in fact, anything I do is), but this isn't your project. It's theirs. It's their decision, just like it was their decision to release a client at all. A downside of open-source tech penetrating a society is that it does grow this all-too common overgrown sense of entitlement. I mean, arguing about their product? A storefront, no less? Should I go into Wal-Mart, asking them to re-arrange the shelves?

That's silly.

It's like I did something completely wrong? In case you didn't notice It's not your project either monkat. It's not up to you to tell me what I should suggest to the Desura team. This is the "suggestion" forum and I didn't impose anything or claim the project was mine. I appreciate that there is a Linux client. I've just stated my rationale for Desura client to go open source, that's all, get over it.

EDIT: Can mods delete/lock these thread? I'm feeling a flame war in the horizon and I don't want to be a part of it any more than I already am.

Edited by: ultraviolent

If Wal-Mart opens a forum with a section for suggestions than I most certainly will be suggesting they re-arrange their shelves if I feel it would help A "forum" is a place to discuss issues and ideas - that's what's happening here.

I don't see anyone "moaning" about open-source and I certainly appreciate the Desura & the Linux client immensely (I have already bought, and plan to continue to buy, games to support it) however whilst I enjoy discussing the benefits of open-source I do not for a moment entertain the notion of making their decisions for them.

Also consider that it's natural that this subject will be often bought up as Linux itself is open-source (I'm not implying that this puts any onus on Desura to become open-source, just that it's an environment where the subject will be tend to be discussed more often).

Edited by: Zarius

It has been mentioned already that we have no intention of making the Desura application open source. There is a lot of tech that we created just for this, and we will continue to expand the application even more. Having said that we are always looking for great ideas. Feel free to post any you have.

The problem is that you suggest making Desura open-source which could trigger an uncontrollable amount of Steam and Desura clones - all ready to sell games. Can you imagine that? It would be an avalanche, and a bit unwanted at that.

Still, it'd be nice to see an "open-source version" of Desura client, but a cut & trimmed edition, just a download manager, meaning:
1) no logging in to accounts, no registering, etc.
2) just downloading free games/mods
3) no encryption, PayPal etc. scripts
4) just the app and access to free games and mods - but without open-sourcing any Desura FTP/server info, the whole open-source code would be template-only (you need to find & code in your own server data without having Desura one as a reference)

I.e. the trimmed user version (without signing in), and with a template-only open-source version of it, i.e. without the Desura "tech" whatsoever.

Edited by: feillyne

@Henley - I acknowledge that there's no intention of making it Open-Source - I hope you don't mind a discussion on the possibilities though

@feilyne - I was thinking of Desura's strengths being their history/reputation/trust/established library of games. Perhaps a middle ground could be to have a closed-source "core" and an open-source client built around that. You'd still be able to log into Desura, query games, etc by asking the core for a login window. Downloading games & other secure processes (purchasing, etc) would be handled by the core.

Kinda like themes on steroids

@feillyne, without a web service to back it up I don't see how it would end up feeding clones, but as zarius already pointed it out, a closed source middlware can be handy.

Zarius wrote: I was thinking of Desura's strengths being their history/reputation/trust/established library of games. Perhaps a middle ground could be to have a closed-source "core" and an open-source client built around that. You'd still be able to log into Desura, query games, etc by asking the core for a login window. Downloading games & other secure processes (purchasing, etc) would be handled by the core.

Kinda like themes on steroids

Hmm, Desura is already quite flexible, and people can check out Desura tweaks group: Moddb.com

Desura is not an established platform, actually it grows its own member base and its own game database, and ModDB is just a huge help in that, but not that big as it seems.

During last months it became evident that ModDB lacks most games that are being sold online now - the only ones added here (in most cases) were the ones that have mods, so the library was lacking and had to grow even more.

ultraviolent wrote: without a web service to back it up I don't see how it would end up feeding clones, but as zarius already pointed it out, a closed source middlware can be handy.

Nope, the "web service" is a very little problem if you take into account the bigger picture. The major problem is business/deals handling such as asking publishers about selling their games. If somebody had an application source code ready for him, that would be his only (large) problem.

More digital distribution services would pop up out of nowhere anyway - making Desura open-source would give them a gigantic spark, and Desura profit off that would be very, very uncertain.

Edited by: feillyne

I disagree. Client -by its own- is useless. No publisher would act on the sole reason that you have a client software ready.

You disagree with what? I assumed that software would be used by various people, students, experienced professionals, would-be publishers, etc. They would already have the client source files (Desura) and then they would have only to complete the rest.

While you assume that the talk was about somebody who has ONLY the client, and e.g. people that are too young or have no experience whatsoever.
Nope. I was talking mostly about adult, mature and experienced people who would base their work on tech already done & programmed by Desura team.

There are loads of such experienced people of there around. You underestimate and underrate people. All they need is a spark, a motivation to base their work on something already done/stable. That would suffice to create a huge amount of competent competitors.

Edited by: feillyne

I think you underestimate the effort to complete such a project and make it a successfull business.

EDIT: I feel like we're drifting away from the subject. There is no guarantee that people won't use the Desura client source -if it's ever released- for their own project but that's the whole point of open source anyway. Afterall Desura client wouldn't exist if it wasn't for all the open source libraries they use (see desura/lib and desura/lib_extra)

Edited by: ultraviolent

Underestimate? Not at all. The point was simply different - the point was that completion of such a project would be made a way easier than it is now. It WOULDN'T eradicate all the effort involved, no. You assumed it yourself.

Desura is just a product, libraries have a broader use.

And if you really desire anything made open-source from Desura, perhaps you should first prove that people are actually interested in it. For example, I don't & didn't see many themes and skins for Desura around. Why is the interest so low? What's the point? Prove that making it open-source has any sense. (And prove with deeds instead of words.)

In fact only Zarius has proven that he's interested in modding Desura and finding out more about it. What about you? What about others?

Edited by: feillyne

I'm not going to argue with you anymore about what's easy and what's not -as I tried to explain it for couple of posts already-. We have different ideas about it and I doubt you have any experiance on the subject judging from your superficial explanations. Comparing theme making and contributing to an open source project and then making a deduction that the interest would be low is just plain crazy. It has no basis at all other than your empty claims. I don't feel like I need to prove anything to you. Desura team made it clear that they won't release the source code. If you're so worried about the "point" I recommend you start by googling "open source".

Haha, yes, you tried to convince people that making Desura open-source wouldn't trigger an avalanche of Desura clones and competitors. It would, if Desura would be completely open-source. Closed-source middleware would be a different thing.

And it's a fine suggestion, IMHO. You just don't understand my points at all.

I've been adding open-source profiles to ModDB for open-source games for a while, and I regularly visit SourceForge. A different kind of interest was meant - DEDICATED interest. A direct, personal one, dedication to the extension and (community-driven) upgrading of Desura if it became open-source (if). People would download source files of Desura, but how many of them would contribute?

Your suggestion seems to have these advantages, it could:
1) bring even more promotion and recognition for Desura
2) make client so more moddable (aka modifiable)
3) help people around the world make similar software / download managers etc
4) give Desura free/community-driven updates and features

But disadvantages could trigger (COULD, only could, it's not said they certainly would)
1) more competitors
2) relatively low interest (and/or relatively low profit off that) - if people would pass by Desura just like most ModDB members and quite a few modders are very little to zero interested in Desura website & app
3) if the license and terms of open-source Desura would be to give credit to Desura team, somebody could use software, close its source, modify it and distribute it without giving proper credit (code stealing), so the promotion & recognition wouldn't be given to Desura and Desura programmers for their hard work

There are more points. And yes, you're right, this thread suddenly turned into a question/request whether Desura could become open-source, and it turns more & more off-topic.

Edited by: feillyne

This all boils down to trust. I don't believe game companies would trust clone stores enough to allow them to sell their games.

Maybe would not trust them at first... besides, "clones" seems to be an understatement. IMHO, there would be many professional devs who could make them unique... and competitive at the same time.

BTW, it'd be nice to see Desura open-source, it just seems risky.

Edited by: feillyne